Because nature brings us beauty and inspiration. It gives us the opportunity to find insights, both scientific and philisophical. It gives us a heritage that we can pass on, a sense of purpose to encourage us to grow and do right. All of those things, they are priceless. Priceless The world isn't stable, the environment isn't stable, less so now that we are around. Global warming, ice ages, supervolcanic eruptions, meteors. Nature/natural events are primed and armed to wipe us, and most species with us, off the face of the planet. We take control, or we die. No. You keep on talking in terms of extremes. It's either this or that. Not only am I saying that going to those extremes is unessecary, cause it is, but it's risky. If we fuck up, we're done. We can take prevantative measures, to protect us from droughts, asteroids, quakes, famines, and whatever else nature throws at us. We can protect ourselves, we can find ways to adapt and recover, and we can and will continue to thrive. We can do all of that without having to take the reigns. We can often find that it's easier to get better results just by doing less. Right. I agree. There's always more to discover. More to develop. More to embrace. Ideally, we can continue to grow by leaps and bounds as the centuries continue to tick off. Right now though, we still act like children. Petulant, short sighted children. We have a long way to go. How do "we" just suddenly change course, how do you just suddenly shift an entire system so drastically in a short time? You can't. Selfishness, apathy, cowardice, and negligence are all things humans do, and things we have to learn to deal with, not things we can simply decide away with. Problems to be fixed, not problems that we can decide to no longer cause. Come on now. Are you going to ignore your previous post? The one where you said we're so much better than we were just 2000 years ago, during biblical times? These things take time. You know it, I know it. Once again though, it's not going to happen if we all just shrug our shoulders and say "Welp. I guess that's just the way it is." We have to want it. To work for it. Struggle for it. In our desire and our struggle to better ourselves, not only will we find greater value in the ways we have grown, but we'll also have developed the behavior and mindset that fosters healthier and more productive social behavior. Yet. We can change. In order to do so though, we have to see the value in it and to want that change. We do it all the time. Remember your example about slavery? Huh? Yeah? Right? That's us seeing value in changing our behaviors. Sure. I agree. That doesn't mean that biodiversity is without value. Once again, we don't have to take the reigns to keep this from happening. All we have to do is act appropriately when and where need be. The scale of these conversations, the impact they have to have, is massive, and they will have that impact in time, when most people are having that discussion, when the thing effects most. Until then, we can't expect change to appear, we can't expect perfection to come from every moment of every person's life. We have to give it time. A hundred years from now may seem a utopia, but I guarantee they will tell you a hundred absurd problems you may react against in a negative way, just like a republican senator clutching onto a snowball.. Oh. I agree. One hundred percent. Yet once again, you contradict yourself. How do "we" just suddenly change course, how do you just suddenly shift an entire system so drastically in a short time? You can't. Selfishness, apathy, cowardice, and negligence are all things humans do, and things we have to learn to deal with, not things we can simply decide away with. Problems to be fixed, not problems that we can decide to no longer cause. That was you just a few lines ago. I reiterate. By embracing the virtues of conservation and stewardship, we are developing attributes and behaviors needed to advance our society. It's like a sapling though. Those behaviors have to start out on a small scale and grow and develop over time before it can be applied on a grander scale.Why? What point does it serve?
Nobody will just get up one day, no nation will just "decide" to do this. It will happen due to necessity. We will find ourselves in a world where nature has failed, has collapsed, or has begun to screw us over, and we will have to "take the wheel".
We will never be a mature species, we will always face issues, and never be satisfied, it's human nature.
Could we stop it? Look at twitch plays pokemon for a prime example of this. Look at the reddit "hivemind", look at how so many human-systems work. It's not that simple.
Expecting humanity to act proactively on things isn't honest. That's not how society has ever worked.
This may be true, but the purpose of biodiversity is to prevent diseases and genetic single-ness that causes all sorts of issues. By ensuring sufficient genetic variation between a crop, you create the diversity needed to ensure safety of the crop, and of those who eat those crops.
This does not indicate that such a system is the better system, especially considering those multiple mass extinction events. I'd prefer change from that particular status-quo, and mankind is the only species with the power to drive that change.
And these are the mechanisms that drive progress, I agree. While I don't entirely agree that the feelings of a fish should really matter very much, this is a massive indication of why exactly mankind is so unique, and why our society constantly seems better than the ones a generation ago. The constant discussion, the constant refreshing of new ideas. These have to happen for progress to be made, and they need to happen on a scale that strikes the majority of 300 million people to drive appropriate change in only one nation.
Could we stop it? Look at twitch plays pokemon for a prime example of this. Look at the reddit "hivemind", look at how so many human-systems work. It's not that simple.
We cannot force the climate to stay as it is without learning to change it ourselves. We cannot prevent asteroids, protect ourselves as a species, without going to another planet and colonizing it, creating a new ecosystem from the ground up. We cannot prevent earthquakes, famines, and whatever else nature may throw at us without taking control of the things that cause them. Can we endure them? Yes. However, doing so sentences thousands of people to death. If humanity never stops progressing, this statement will never stop being true. That is true. I was speaking against the idea that humanity today is somehow in the wrong, or somehow immoral, somehow negative. The way society is today, all the issues we face, are signs of the times, signs of our abilities. We should always seek to expand and grow those abilities, to inform those who are wrong. However, their existence is not counter to the fact that humanity can and will grow to the point that it controls the planet from the ground up. We can and will become mature enough as a species to do so. The thing that took the bloodiest civil war in history to end? The thing whose effects still face us today? The thing whose practice was extended far beyond the point it was needed, to the point it was actively harming the societies it was part of? We likely won't see the big push against global warming until we are in the same, or a similar situation, where the effects of it are clearly effecting us. If it has value, that value will be extracted. If the costs are higher than the value, it will not be. What is this supposed to mean?We can take prevantative measures, to protect us from droughts, asteroids, quakes, famines, and whatever else nature throws at us. We can protect ourselves, we can find ways to adapt and recover, and we can and will continue to thrive.
Right now though, we still act like children. Petulant, short sighted children. We have a long way to go.
it's not going to happen if we all just shrug our shoulders and say "Welp. I guess that's just the way it is."
Remember your example about slavery? Huh? Yeah? Right? That's us seeing value in changing our behaviors.
That doesn't mean that biodiversity is without value.
It's like a sapling though. Those behaviors have to start out on a small scale and grow and develop over time before it can be applied on a grander scale.
Can we endure them? Yes. However, doing so sentences thousands of people to death. We don't need to control things to prevent the damages they cause. A diverse agrictultural system with a robust storage and distribution network would prevent famines. Done. Better architecture and infrastructure combined with a greater understanding of geological activity to create better early warning systems would mitigate much of the damage caused by earthquakes, tidal waves, and volcanos. Done. Same thing can be applied to weather phenomenon like tornados and hurricanes. Asteroids and meteors? There's so many out there that even attempting to control a portion of them would be a huge waste of time and resources. All we need is a good, defensive net. Metaphorically speaking, you don't need to control the lion outside your village, you just need a good enough wall. Eh. Semantics. Maybe as a species we'll hit a peak or maybe we'll hit a plateu. Either way, where we are now is a far cry from where we can and should be. We agree. We disagree. We likely won't see the big push against global warming until we are in the same, or a similar situation, where the effects of it are clearly effecting us. It was something that was going to end eventually, because it's demonstrably harmful. For our country, it took a war. That sucks, but change isn't always easy. As for climate change, we're starting to see change now. Renewable energy. Emission controls. People getting angry at nations and corporations being run by dicks. It's a slow progression, yes, but campared to where we were 15 and 20 years ago, we've made some decent progress and the progress we're making and the impact it has will hopefully continue to snowball. I guess you're not one for metaphors. Change, especially meaningful change, doesn't always happen overnight. It often starts out small, a few people here and there with a desire to make things better (or worse). By acting positively and encouraging others to do so, their behavior as well as the impact of their behavior slowly spreads to more and more people. As it spreads, other people contribute their own ideas, skills, and resources, making the foundation for that change that much stronger. The change grows, multiplies, and gets stronger. Like a tree.We cannot force the climate to stay as it is without learning to change it ourselves. We cannot prevent asteroids, protect ourselves as a species, without going to another planet and colonizing it, creating a new ecosystem from the ground up. We cannot prevent earthquakes, famines, and whatever else nature may throw at us without taking control of the things that cause them.
If humanity never stops progressing, this statement will never stop being true.
That is true. I was speaking against the idea that humanity today is somehow in the wrong, or somehow immoral, somehow negative. The way society is today, all the issues we face, are signs of the times, signs of our abilities. We should always seek to expand and grow those abilities, to inform those who are wrong.
However, their existence is not counter to the fact that humanity can and will grow to the point that it controls the planet from the ground up. We can and will become mature enough as a species to do so.
The thing that took the bloodiest civil war in history to end? The thing whose effects still face us today? The thing whose practice was extended far beyond the point it was needed, to the point it was actively harming the societies it was part of?
What is this supposed to mean?