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comment by crafty
crafty  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pig wrestling: animal cruelty or human cruelty?

Yeah, you really get the sense that if it was a fair footing for both species, humans would enjoy it much less. We're all animals in the fundamental sense of the word, what "rights" we deem fit to give to members of our own species, versus other species, are arbitrary. I have to admit, rodeos (and now pigwrestling, thanks roysexton) has been in the back of my mind for a while now, and I suppose they're all in a similar vein to circuses; the idea that animals deserve to be exploited for entertainment certainly seems distasteful, but I'm still not sure if I would go as far to say that all species deserve a inalienable right to be free from exploitation by humans.

Animals being kept and used in captivity is a difficult issue to parse from the broad continuum of situations: my pet dog, which lives better than some humans do; a dolphin or elephant kept in captivity by the professional staff of a multi-million dollar amusement park or nature reserve, an animal that is kept safe and healthy, perhaps mentally stimulated, but still prevented from having free agency; a pig used in pigwrestling spectacles, bruised and stressed, but unslaughtered and hopefully returned to a family farm that raises them humanely; or a factory-farm chicken, or a primate used in some cruel laboratory tests, held and used with minimal concern for the animal's well-being.





roysexton  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I appreciate this thoughtful and gracious response. I've gotten a lot of grief from people who think "bacon!" is a reasonable response to this issue. I find the glib, classless, and reckless approach some people take to how animals are treated so troubling, and it makes me feel good that there are folks like you who share the same concerns.

crafty  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thank you. I'm conflicted because, on one hand, I really enjoy cooking and eating meat, but on the other, the moral and environmental effects of meat production do give me pause. For the moral concerns, I like to pretend that I could hunt, kill and prepare a wild animal as prehistoric humans once did, but I know that is nowhere close to reality; our current relationship with "meat" is so far removed from nature it would be laughable if it weren't so sad. For the time being, I simply have to accept my cognitive dissonance on this issue and slowly work at it from the edges.

someguyfromcanada  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I completely agree with you and have struggled with this issue for a long time. I grew up hunting and fishing. Then I was opposed to hunting as I thought it was cruel. But the more I learned about industrialized food production the more I thought that hunting is the more humane way to go. I eat meat and I have to get it somehow. I know a lot of hunters and fishers and they all absolutely have conservationist tendencies and hate it whenever they make a mistake and an animal suffers.

I would recommend reading Michael Pollan's book The Omnivore's Dilemma if you are interested in thinking more about such choices.

crafty  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That looks like a very interesting book. I've seen the PBS adaptation of his previous book The Botany of Desire which was an absolutely fascinating documentary, so I'll definitely check that out.

I really would like to go hunting at some point, although not ever having operated more than a BB rifle and not knowing the first thing about hunting, I'm not sure where to start. I do have respect for people who hunt for food responsibly. I sort of feel like using a gun is cheating in a way, but then again, we did evolve big brains and complex tools for a reason. I might have a fighting chance to feed myself with a gun, but if I had to rely on persistence hunting like a true prehistoric human, I would certainly starve to death, or at least be a vegetarian if I was lucky!

someguyfromcanada  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In a perfect world I would personally grow and kill everything I eat. Probably more growing then hunting though.

Fun Fact: Michael Pollan is the brother of actress Tracy Pollan, who is married to Michael J. Fox.

edit: I just downloaded that book. Thanks for the recommendation.

roysexton  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

yup, that's all you can do - I've been vegetarian for about 4 years now - it got much easier after a month or so, and now I don't even give it another thought

crafty  ·  3409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For me, personally, I think I could adjust to a vegetarian diet, I do enjoy a wide variety of fruits, vegetables and grains, but my partner, he has a much more, lets say, limited palate when it comes to fruits and vegetables. Do you eat a lot of beans and nuts or like, what are your main food staples?

roysexton  ·  3408 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I eat a lot of tofu and the fake meats - my partner just likes veggies and gets all his protein that way - we eat out a lot, which is bad. I wish we cooked more at home

crafty  ·  3408 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think I've eaten tofu before, but I can't really remember, I don't think it left a strong impression on me. I can tell you right now though, my partner would not touch tofu with a ten foot pole, and to be perfectly honest, I don't really know why. I think he is a super-taster or something, but he is extremely picky, anything which is bitter or sour, or has a strange, unusual, or even slightly different texture elicits a, "hmm... yech.. nibble nibble what is this!?" and that's if I can even get him to try it in the first place. We mostly cook at home, but have a pretty limited diet of pasta, rice, potatoes, eggs, lots of dairy and cheese, broccoli, tomatoes, onions, corn occasionally, and chicken or pork, with some limited red meat, and fruits being mostly apples, strawberries, watermelons, plums or oranges depending on the season. I'll eat a much wider variety of veggies, but he won't touch any kind of beans or nuts.