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comment by coffeesp00ns
coffeesp00ns  ·  3186 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why L, G, B, and T together?

Okay, here I am, as @thenewgreen requested!

You've gotten a lot of really great answers so far - shoutouts especially to Kafke, Quatrarius and khjuu for great answers though I don't agree with everything everyone said all the time (but that's me and my opinion).

Since you've gotten so many good answers, I think it might be good to flesh out some of the history, and provide some context from that perspective.

While there were earlier events, The "shot heard 'round the world" of the Gay rights movement in North America is the Stone Wall Riots. Basic story - Mob-Owned Gay bars were paying off police to prevent raids (running a "gay bar" was illegal at the time, and the mob was pretty much the only game in town willing to do it). Stonewall was seen by many as "the" gay bar in the city, but it mostly only catered to Gay men (with a few Lesbian clients), and was one of the few bars which catered to effeminate men, cross dressers and trans women (though AMAB people dressing entirely in women's clothing was discouraged - and AFAB women had to be wearing "at least 3 articles of women's clothing"). The alcohol was bootlegged, raids were frequent.

This raid, At 1:20 AM on Saturday, June 28, 1969, was different. Instead of the usual seizure of alcohol and taking down of some names, maybe arresting the most flamboyant, it began to look a bit like a mass arrest. A crowd grew outside, mostly of gay people, and the mood darkened. After a woman (possibly Stormé DeLarverie) was brought out in handcuffs and evidence of being beaten, it turned into a riot.

At the core of this riot were the crossdressers, effeminite gay men, and trans women. women like Silvia Rivera, Marsha P. Johnson and others, along with many Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and queer people were at the heart of this movement. The T is in LGBT because historically, we were a big part of the history of said movement.

So that's some history into the "why" of it.

The question of whether we should be there or not is sort of a more complicated one. One one hand it ends up spreading a lot of bad ideas about trans people - that we are just extra gay men and women, or that we transition because we are so ashamed of liking the "same sex", or (especially in the case of trans lesbians) that we transition because we love the opposite gender so much we just want to be them. On the other hand, as rjw says, a lot of it has to do with intersectionality. We have a lot of legal needs in common - the right to marry, the right to live as ourselves without fear of persectution - so there are benefits to working together, and we have our similarities: we are all humans who are "fringe" cases, a small part of the population.

I hope this helps provide more context into your questions.





steve  ·  3186 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is great context. Thank you for sharing. And thanks to everyone for the answers. I think most of this I understand... except for the intersectionality thing - I'm reading...

coffeesp00ns  ·  3186 days ago  ·  link  ·  

well, think of it in terms of this statistic

16 transgender people have been unlawfully killed this year, according to this. That's not a complete list, and I think that the amount of trans men on the list in general is underrepresented. Still, however, it is notable that as yet, all of the trans murders this year are women save Brian / Bri Golec, whose identifiers are unclear but appears to have been identifying as an androgynous pansexual man.

So an intersectionality is that All trans people have a higher likelihood of murder than the average person, but Trans women have a higher risk (in as much as it's supported by our statistics - it may be that trans men are underrepresented) of murder. Their experiences are different within the experience of being trans

It's also notable that at least 12 of those women murdered are women of colour. Trans women all have a higher likelihood of murder than the average person, but Trans women of colour are more likely to be murdered. their experiences are different again from white trans women.

That's intersectionality, as I understand it, in a nutshell, and it's a problem because of the broad "Gentrification" of the LGBT movement, and the Feminist movement (and really almost all movements) - lots of white gay men don't want to talk about the black trans women on the streets, lots of white feminists don't want to talk about the overrepresentation of trans women of colour in homelessness, or in sex work, or even the general overrepresentation of GSM kids on the street.

coffeesp00ns  ·  3186 days ago  ·  link  ·  

As an aside, this JUST got posted on Vice today:

How the Mafia Once Controlled the New York Gay Scene - Vice