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comment by Kaius
Kaius  ·  3610 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The War Nerd: Why Sherman was right to burn Atlanta

This post is a week old, I meant to comment on it sooner but was too busy.

Shelby Foote wrote a huge 3 volume history of the civil war so he was certainly an expert on the subject but there was one thing he said that I could never really agree with. He maintained that the war produced 2 real geniuses, Abraham Lincoln and Nathan Bedford Forrest, Now I'm with him all the way with Lincoln, he was a genius on many levels but Forrest is a different story. He was a great tactical commander but his post war career casts a long shadow over him.

For me the other genius of the war apart from Lincoln was Sherman, take a look at the following quote (also included in the article)

    You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it … Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.
It's the last 2 sentences that get me, he calls it perfectly, its 5 years into the future and a bunch of people have to die before it comes true but he sees it clearly and tries to warn them.

I don't have Shelbys' knowledge on the subject so my analogies will only be skin deep but I liken Shermans 'Total War' approach to Atlanta and NC as being similar to what happened to Japan in WW2. They were beaten but the die hards didn't know it and a whole lot more people were going to die before the fighting really stopped. There had to be a statement, there had to be an unquestionable show of force that put to an end any lingering thought that the war was still winnable. They needed to be shown they were utterly defeated, only then could peace really become viable. If not the die hards would muster again and who know when things could re-erupt.





cgod  ·  3610 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Nathan Bedford Forrest was a brilliant cavalry commander by any professional measure. Lots of people choose to condemn his military exploits because he was a total piece of shit but oh lord he could soldier.

There was a union cavalry commander who's exploits were about as astounding as Forrests but hell if I can remember his name.

Shelby Foot's books are a must read if you are at all interested in the Civil War, comprehensive and very readable.

Edit: Forrest had all the talent and morals to be general in Genghis Khan's Golden horde (just an idle thought while making turkey stock).

proustfan  ·  3608 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You've reminded me of The War Nerd's post on Ben Grierson. I don't know if he can compare to Forrest, but he sounds like he was a decent person.

Kaius  ·  3610 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm drunk and in a nightclub right now but ill respond when sober.

ecib  ·  3605 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My god you've been drunk for four days straight now.

Kaius  ·  3605 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You say that like its a bad thing :)

    Nathan Bedford Forrest was a brilliant cavalry commander by any professional measure. Lots of people choose to condemn his military exploits because he was a total piece of shit but oh lord he could soldier.
Absolutely, and I don't condemn Forrest for his off the field of battle pursuits beyond disputing Shelby's claim that he was a Genius at an equal standing to Lincoln.

As a Cavalry commander he was remarkable and he used his own (significant) personal wealth to fund his own unit at the start of the war, his rallying cry for recruitment was "I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged. COME ON BOYS, IF YOU WANT A HEAP OF FUN AND TO KILL SOME YANKEES".

The thing with Forrest is that he appears to have been brilliant at rounding an enemy force and destroying their supply/communication chain in the rear. He caused all sorts of problems for Grant and Sherman, no one could really get to grips with him. That said I have read that while he was a great commander working remotely he was far less effective when supporting other commanders on his own side which meant that it was harder to coordinate his forces with others to really take on the union in battle.

In any case he was a very interesting character, I do wonder sometimes if certain aspects have been embellished over time.

kleinbl00  ·  3608 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I missed this the first time 'round. I'm debating diving in and doing the Foote trilogy on Audible. What say you?

Kaius  ·  3608 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yea I bought them from Audible and I am still working my way through them. I binge on it and then take a break with something related (Team of Rivals at the moment). I'd say its definitely worth reading if you have an interest in the topic.

Also I must mention, while the narrator Grover Gardner does a great job I think Shelby missed a trick by not reading it himself. That non-rhotic, whisky-sippin, mississippi drawl would have been fantastic.