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comment by bioemerl
bioemerl  ·  2169 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: For blacks, America is dangerous by default

    because white people dont want to actually do anything as that'd admit being attached to wrong doing.

And articles like this are going to help how exactly?

    . In my experiences, white people who claim they aren't racist, discriminatory, etc also don't want to participate in the dismantling of a system that benefits them.

What system?

The best example I can see of what you are talking about is stereotyping. And this isn't a system "non-racist white people do not attempt to dismantle". Do you think everyone should overreact to anything we think could possibly be stereotypical? Should we scorn those who avoid downtown because they don't want to get mugged?

This isn't something that white people can change. The only way the issue here can be fixed is:

Ending the war on drugs, kill off the gangs by killing their money.

Focus a large ad campaign on what stereotypes can do to a person, get one of the existing organizations to back it. Focus on some kid being left out of a group of "nerd" based on skin color or something.

Focus on changing any cultures that exist in ghetos that say "to act smart is to act white" attack those cultures in the same way as above. Targeted advertising.

All of these things are, to an extent, already being done. More importantly, none of these things are able to be done by the average white person. Even more importantly, white people aren't a giant cohesive group, you can't expect the "non-racist" people who recognize stereotypes to be able to change those who are "Racist".

What exactly would you expect white people to be doing, if they were to be trying to dismantle a system that benefits them? Mind, increased equality does not come at an expense to the second group. It benefits us all.





JackTheBandit  ·  2169 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    And articles like this are going to help how exactly?

It doesnt help the situation. It probably at best keeps awareness in the minds of people who would otherwise avoid it and during that time it may be possible to spur them into action.

    Do you think everyone should overreact to anything we think could possibly be stereotypical? Should we scorn those who avoid downtown because they don't want to get mugged?

You probably didn't mean to arrange the words in this manner because my answer to that is yes. The attitude that forms as a result of that stereotype provides the shield necessary to cause intentional harm to a segment of society. The "I'm not going to the South Bronx because its poor, dangerous, and beneath me" allows those people to block out the needs of those who have been born into that cycle.

So when all these community organizations form to combat the ills of society, they can't get help from the government at large or even the mindshare of the people. Then, when something happens to force these issues into their faces, you get arguments like "why don't black (read: poor) people stop killing each other. why don't black (read: poor) people stop selling drugs. why dont black people stop dressing differently from the normal (read: white) standard" and so forth.

    What exactly would you expect white people to be doing, if they were to be trying to dismantle a system that benefits them? Mind, increased equality does not come at an expense to the second group. It benefits us all.

If I go through American history to the origin of the listed things to be fixed, we'd find that white people propagated the attitudes necessary for those conditions to exist and to go interrupted long enough to become self-perpetuating.

This is work that needs to occur over successive generations without interruption. This is work that has to start with the individual and spread beyond.

That said, what people should be doing is actually attempting to learn about cultures outside of their own default culture. Instead of harboring preconceived notions and stereotypes. The isolation of rural suburban America (read: white people) enables people to put themselves in the boxes necessary to believe the propaganda that's being sold to this population.

What people should be doing is actually having public conversation about these problems that keep getting swept under a rug because they're uncomfortable, because they question the foundation of your reality. We have to keep forcing the issue because the issue needs to be resolved one way or the other.

To me, white people need to begin the work of actively confronting the negative cultural behaviors that are responsible for the current state of affairs. You know, kinda the same way white people tell people to do something about black on black crime and gangsta rap. Because, I gotta tell you, I've crossed paths with very few white people who have.

bioemerl  ·  2169 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The "I'm not going to the South Bronx because its poor, dangerous, and beneath me" allows those people to block out the needs of those who have been born into that cycle.

The issue here is that people aren't avoiding south Bronx because it's poor and beneath them, it's because they fear being mugged, robbed, shot, etc. No sane person would chose to be there.

That isn't the issue. Having people go to the bad parts of town will not make people more sympathetic when they get mugged, they will relate that mugging to going into the "black side of town", it will make them less sympathetic because of that.

    So when all these community organizations form to combat the ills of society, they can't get help from the government at large or even the mindshare of the people.

Things don't change overnight. It takes time for any cultural moment to get going, and it takes time to get that push strong enough for it to become self-sustaining.

    Then, when something happens to force these issues into their faces, you get arguments like "why don't black (read: poor) people stop killing each other. why don't black (read: poor) people stop selling drugs. why dont black people stop dressing differently from the normal (read: white) standard" and so forth.

I'm sorry, but the "normal" standard is not the white standard. It's the normal one. I will agree with you on the subject of accent though, which is just about as much a choice as the color of one's skin.

People in the US dress a certain way no matter the race. Most all of it is based on wealth, with old ragged clothing for the lower classes, and fancy suits and ties for the higher classes.

Wearing chains, wearing baggy pants, etc, is not a standard of people trying and seeking to look down on black people. It's society looking down on anyone who doesn't fit the norm.

And it is entirely true that in order for stereotypes to change, we need to change the actions of the black community just as we do the white one. Do you think change is just going to come from one group in a situation like this? Where do you think the stereotypes come from? We could have the biggest push against steriotypes possible, and in twenty years they will pop right back up if the real issues of inequality do not get fixed. (see, war on drugs, attacking the "to be smart is to be white" culture, and ensuring our education systems become equal again rather than having good schools in rich cities)

I do agree that ideas need to change on the idea that black people are the cause of them being poor, because that isn't true. However, those ideas are founded in ignorance, and they aren't going to change without a large cultural push. That push isn't going to just happen one day for no reason, it has to be caused, and onto the next point.

    we'd find that white people propagated the attitudes necessary for those conditions to exist and to go interrupted long enough to become self-perpetuating.

Bullshit.

White people didn't create the conditions for the civil rights movement, black people(MLK and similar) did that. White people didn't create the conditions for global warming to become a thing, Al-Gore did that. And, it is probably true that it isn't until a large number of white people start allying with a cause that it starts to steam-roll. However, when white people make up ~50 percent of the population, it's kind of hard for that not to be true.

People, society, is not an "active" being. We don't change without being pushed. There has to be something pushing for change to occur. Society doesn't move because everyone gets up and decides they; want to change, it moves through the blood and sweat of people who spend their lives trying to move it.

And, just as the extremist "THE WHOLE EARTH IS GOING TO DIE GAIZ" articles hurt the cause of making people aware of global warming. "IT IS DANGEROUS TO BE BLACK AN AMERICA GAIZ" hurts the cause of ending stereotypes. We need a good, rational, push against something that is portrayed as something which is wrong. We don't need to be pointing fingers, attacking each-other, or making outrageous statements for the sake of trying to attract attention. Nobody takes the guy yelling about the apocalypse on the corner seriously, but if that guy presents himself well and shows the specifics of what is going on, has a clear plan to facilitate change, etc, than the plan has a far better chance of working.