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comment by humanodon
humanodon  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Have cigarettes become more addictive? - Health - Boston.com

I'm not totally sure, or even how accurate the reported concentrations of nicotine is in juice from various manufacturers. For example, I'm on 36mg and 24mg, from Mt. Baker Vapors, but as far as I know, there is no body that checks to verify whether or not this is so.

I haven't been following the research closely, but I do know that there is a lot of interest in the technology. Furthermore, there have been some issues in how certain studies have been conducted, for example, some studies that assume that most users inhale vapor the same way that they would smoke. While this is certainly one way to use e-cigs, I was told that for the best absorption of nicotine, it's recommended to draw the vapor into the mouth, more like how one would smoke a pipe or a cigar.

Another thing that makes research a bit tough, is that there is a lot of variance between devices in terms of how much vapor is released and at what voltage and then again in the actual nicotine juices used and the various flavoring additives. Until good research can be done, I think that many people who are not smokers or users of these devices will continue to be resistant to their presence and will continue to treat them as a nicotine delivery system in the same class as cigarettes, which is lame and unsubstantiated, though a bit understandable.

What bothers me is the stigma against smoking. If that's the dirtiest thing that people can imagine in their everyday lives and worry about it to the point of trying to prevent others from making the choice to smoke, then I do think that's a real problem. Personally I'm more worried about antibiotics and pesticides, not to mention nitrogen pollution or even indoor air quality.





insomniasexx  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What's your favorite from Mt Baker? I just got Hawk Sauce from ElGuapo in Chicago and it's pretty delicious. I am going to buy a couple more soon.

humanodon  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm cycling through flavors, but I'll give you a bit of a rundown on what I've tried.

So far, I've tried:

Blueberry at 70/30 PG/VG, 36mg (I wouldn't get this again and it was a struggle to finish it)

Cider Fire at 70/30 PG/VG, 24mg (Cider with a little cinnamon. I guess this was ok.)

Get Razzled at 50/50 PG/VG, 24mg (Raspberry with cream flavor. Pretty tasty, but it always made my clearos leak.)

Butterscotch at 50/50 PG/VG, 24mg, 2 extra flavoring shots (Good for a taste, but as it steeped it began to taste like birthday cake from a box. Plus it clogged up my clearos.)

Pear at 50/50 PG/VG, 36mg, 1 extra flavoring shot (I would buy this again in an instant. Nice, light flavor, not too sweet.)

Peach at 50/50 PG/VG, 36mg, 1 extra flavoring shot (Smells better than it tastes. Taste is a bit weak, if pleasant.)

Moo Juice at 50/50 PG/VG, 36mg, 1 extra flavoring shot (This is just ok. Like strawberry hard candy with a kind of cream flavor.)

Honeydew at 50/50 PG/VG, 36mg, 1 extra flavoring shot (Good, but weak. Easy to forget about.)

Cucumber Mint at 50/50 PG/VG, 24mg, 1 extra flavoring shot (I love this one and will definitely buy more. Not minty like menthol, but just enough to notice. The cucumber doesn't really taste like a cucumber, or anything identifiable, but it's nice.)

French Vanilla at 50/50 PG/VG, 24mg, 1 extra flavoring shot. (Pretty damn good. A little tiny bit perfume-y, but it's nice and mellow, but still interesting.)

I also was sent Cherry Tea and Razzleberry Pie as samples. Both were at 80/20 PG/VG, 12mg. Cherry Tea was gross. Kind of cloying, for both the cherry and the tea flavor. The tea flavor was nice at the end. Razzleberry Pie tasted amazing on the first vape, but it got weird as I went through the clearo. Also, if you don't shake the juice, some kind of solid precipitates out of it, so no thanks.

insomniasexx  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Damn. Thanks for the in depth list!!

What's the difference between the PG/VG variations? I've read a couple things that talk about allergies and stuff but can't seem to get it. A majority of the juices I have are given to me by friends or my IT guy (he had an online shop before a bunch of drama with his business partner) so I just take what I'm given and enjoy them simply because they were gifts.

I have noticed that some of them make my breath get icky quickly. I don't know if it's because of the dryness or something? I've been try to be more aware of this but I've been sick the last week so it's throwing off my super sciencey observation process. :P

I had a bunch of random chinese cheap ones at first. Now I have been using NicVape that my IT guy gave me.

Full bottle experiences:

Dragon Fruit - Pretty good. A little sweeter than I like but really interesting flavor, especially with a single drop of menthol added to cartridge.

Wild Raz is bad - it smells and tastes like soap.

Pomegranate is okay.

Apple Menthol - first batch I had was amazing. Tasted like a nice green apple without being overly sweet. Second had too much menthol so you can barely taste the apple.

Single cartridge tries:

Gummybear - really interesting but gross. It tasted exactly like gummy bears, including that weird sort of powdery aftertaste. Props to them for nailing that detail though! LOL!

Bacon - tried this one. Do not recommend. Under any circumstances.

Blackberry bourbon - tried once and switched back to a fruity one. Couldn't really decipher the flavor but I wasn't a fan.

I have the hawk sauce now that I like and cream soda from Mt. Baker that is alright. My coworker doesn't like how it smells though so I doubt I'll use it much. It smells so damn overly sweet.

I also have a Dank Hunny Dew (their spelling, not mine) from a local head shop who is mixing their own stuff now. That shit is fabulous.

Also - shouting out ElGuapo again. Read the comment above this one.

humanodon  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm not an expert, but from what I've read PG is what gives the throat hit and also what gives one "vape throat" (as I like to call it). PG is really thin, so a high PG ratio means a thinner juice. VG is what makes most of the cloudy vapor and unlike PG, is slightly sweet. Some people say that VGs natural sweetness masks flavors from juices, but I don't know how true that is. It is also thicker, so juices with a high VG might clog heads faster, though I haven't really noticed a difference. I've read that some people find that VG-heavy juices make them phlegmy. I'm not sure I've noticed any change in my phlegm level, but I did smoke for a long time, so maybe I just don't know what a normal phlegm level is?

Anyway, I like 50/50 because 70/30 feels harsh in a way that does not mirror my smoking experience. Bottles do go a little faster, but I like the experience better. I'd like to try different ratios sometime in the future, but I'm all set at the moment.

Thanks for your reply list! I've been pretty curious about trying another brand, but as I'm on a budget I figured I'd explore a brand I've had good service from. I wonder where all these flavors are coming from and who is manufacturing them. I'd love it if there were some kind of international body that could vet this stuff for consumers, but such a body independent of a government seems like a fantasy at the moment.

I don't know your feelings on the baconmania that we're living through, but I'm about ready for it to stop, much as I love the stuff. I had a candy bar the other day with bacon and potato chip bits in it. It reminded me of when I used to smoke pot, but not really in a fond way. I'll be sure to steer clear of any bacon juice though, thanks for the heads up.

I'm not really sure what you mean about the powdery aftertaste of gummy bears, but then again, I haven't had any for a while. Does it taste like a specific color of gummy bear, or is it more of a general gummy bear flavor? I once had the misfortune of eating gummybear ice-cream. Terrible combo. The gummy bears got really hard and it felt like my fillings were coming out when I chewed them. Incidentally, I recently read about Haribo sugarless gummy bears causing painful diarrhea in a number of customers. Perhaps gummy bears are more sinister than I once thought.

Have you found anything that alleviates vape throat? I find that it's in a spot that doesn't get wet when I drink water, somehow. So far, it's what I like least about vaping.

ElGuapo  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Stuff from Mt.Baker tends to need to steep before the flavors are max enjoyable. at the 50/50 ratio you are using the liquids can separate a bit, but you should always shake your bottles before you fill.

humanodon  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I try to let them steep a week or so before I use them. Thanks for the tip about shaking the juice.

ElGuapo  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hawk Sauce 80/20 VG/pg in 24mg nic is my ADV(all day vape) Faux Hawk is good too (discoverd during the great hawk sauce shortage of 2012)

I hear really good things about TVC (http://thevaporchef.com/) but im not into most of the flavors.

thenewgreen  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The amount of damage that cigarette smoking causes is enormous and it's a huge burden on our medical industry and a huge cost to all of us. There is no doubt that antibiotics and pesticides in foods are also a huge problem and I don't think we need to chose between eradicating one or the other. There are huge corporate interests behind both that make it difficult to eradicate. Smoking is horrible for people though add to this the fact that the manufacturers directly market to young people, literally giving away their products to get people hooked and it gets even more despicable. It's the number one cause of preventable disease in the world. Number one. We spend billions of dollars in the US alone treating preventable diseases that are associated with smoking.

I enjoy an occasional cigarette, I really do but smoking as a habit is horrendous for the individual and for society. I'd gladly see a world where they didn't exist at all.

humanodon  ·  3724 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Certainly, but obesity is a growing concern as well. I have no problem with people marketing food, but I do have a problem with things that are added to food, like sugar or high-fructose corn syrup. Smoking is not nearly as prevalent as it once was and it seems like it is still on the decline.

The current burden on the medical industry is predominantly from older people who grew up before the dangers of smoking were confirmed or even acknowledged as fact. That is a huge difference from smokers who grew up after the fact. Furthermore, it really seems like pulmonary afflictions tend to be assumed to be caused by smoking rather than things like indoor air quality or fine particles in industrial settings and given the prevalence of smoking in the past, it makes sense.

However, I don't see the issue of indoor air quality or even air quality in general being addressed except when it gets to be really terrible, as in the recent reportage of the smog in China. I'm not at all saying that smoking isn't bad and I'm not trying to minimize it, but I am saying that I think smoking has been a huge target for a long time and as such, has distracted people from other things that are worthy of consideration, which also affect the burden on the medical industry (like obesity). Just because a big target exists doesn't mean that it's the only target or that eliminating a large problem will be more advantageous than resolving numerous smaller problems.

Edit:

I should also say that one of the more interesting ideas that I've been exposed to via conflict resolution is the idea of fractionating, which essentially means breaking a larger issue down into smaller, more manageable components. I think it's very likely that by learning about effective ways to work with and around addictive things and behaviors, it might just so happen that a much more effective way of dealing with a large issue like smoking, might emerge. Certainly, stigmatizing people who smoke does not do this and in fact tends to inspire people who do smoke to get defensive about it, or to react emotionally rather than to understand the long term benefit of not smoking or participating in a technology that might help them to quit or perhaps reduce the possibility of tobacco related afflictions, or even lead to another technology that might make nicotine consumption as benign as caffeine consumption.