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comment by Kafke
Kafke  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Would people be up for some friendly Debates on the #Debate tag?

I dunno about debating. Discussions definitely. But debating implies that you are trying to win the other side over. Instead, we should focus on exploring the idea and cooperatively explore the idea and come to a conclusion. That, IMO, is much more of hubski's style.

But debates might work, depending on how they are set up. I just feel like it might divide the community, which wouldn't be a good thing.





Loogawa  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What I mean as debating is an argument where you are trying to convince the other side, but also trying to defend your own side. Perhaps even re-evaluate your own point.

I don't mean for there to be any winners or losers.

Kafke  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

By making the goal "convince the other side" that means there is a winner and loser. Namely, the winner is the convincer, and the loser is the convinced.

I have no problem switching my "side" when approaching topics, but others are less likely to do so. That's why I think reframing it to be a "discussion" would be better. It doesn't create an "us vs them" mentality, and instead it creates an "us vs the topic" mentality. This allows the community to work as a group to tackle a topic, rather than work against each other.

I suppose the most important thing would be to keep it civil. It can be very easy to split a community.

Crow  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I like this idea, though I agree that maybe #discuss or #discussion would foster more of a cooperative and informative experience. I even think it would be neat to have some threads where people are asked to deliberately approach the issue from the other side's perspective (in good faith). Like #devilsadvocate.

Loogawa  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well I'm sure some people would actually believe the other side's perspective, at least on topics of politics, the supernatural, alternative medicine, paranormal, aliens, global warming. I'm sure there is some diversity.

Crow  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I meant it would be a fun challenge to yourself to have to put yourself in the other side's shoes and argue their points from a logical position. So maybe you'd see things from a new perspective (and strengthen or revise your own position).

humanodon  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Along with that, it seems vulnerable to "ganging up" on one side or another by sheer presence of preference for a given side. If the thing is structured well and people went along with that structure, it could work. I am not however, suggesting that any sort of moderator (in the internet forum sense) be appointed. Perhaps people nominated by agreement to mediate could work . . .

That said, I don't think that I would participate.

Alexander  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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humanodon  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Loogawa explicitly mentioned debating and even arguing with an interest of persuading others to a certain position as well as defending one's own position. Discussion is very different. What you are saying does not address what I was talking about.

Alexander  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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humanodon  ·  4101 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thus the quotation marks. What I mean, is that a side could win by default (or seem to) simply because of the sheer number of others who might voice similar opinions or take certain positions that would be naturally opposed to another position. Additionally, that can happen even with the utmost civility.

I did not say that you were supporting all of what Loogawa said, merely restating what he said to provide proper context for what I am saying.

In a debate setting, the winner is determined by the strength of their argument. The number of participants is also predetermined, unlike what seems to be proposed here. Thus, in a formal debate, a position cannot be overwhelmed by numbers within the constraints of the debate.

In a setting like hubski, where users are encouraged to freely wander in and out of threads, contributing where they feel they should, what I am outlining seems very possible. Again, thus the quotation marks.

It might not be consciously done, but say that people looking on decide to share an argument because they agree with it, or even badge it. Well, then that lends itself to at least the appearance of popular assent. If members go further and comment, indicating their assent and perhaps adding to that particular argument rather than addressing the other side, well then that might lend itself to the appearance of a win, too. All of that can be accomplished without any aggression at all.