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comment by mk
mk  ·  4188 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Sympathy for the Luddites: Krugman endorses minimum income

    Aren't 'fair' labor laws a better way to provide for those hard-workers? If Americans value good hard-working people then they must make laws which force owners to pay them according to their work. Healthy self image is fostered by earning more for hard work, in the form of wages. That same person is demoralized when given a hand-out in the form of welfare.

IMO one issue here is that this assumes that there is work to be found, which can be subsidized rather than give the minimum income in a 'hand-out'. When I first visited China in 2001, I encountered some people whose only job was to push the buttons in an elevator. This was a remnant from Communism, which fought hard through central planning to provide everyone with employment, and through that employment, a living wage.

I'm not so sure I see a minimum income to be a handout in a society that has less work than people needed to do it. As I see it, we are headed towards a post-Capitalist world, as a large number of people will no longer be able to offer enough worth paying for. In this situation, is it better to keep them busy with a non-essential task, and pay them more than their productivity? In some sense, I see that as almost a form of soft slavery, forcing individuals to go through the actions of an economic system that is no longer valid.





ButterflyEffect  ·  4187 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I truly hope that we are indeed headed towards a post-Capitalist world. The notion of that is thrilling to me. I want technology and labor to progress to the point where it is possible to put in 20-hours of work and be done for the week, even if it means not making an exorbitant amount of money.

blackbootz  ·  4186 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What will be among some of the last jobs to be replaced by automatons?

I'm trying to combine my natural interests with what I see to be an always in-demand "service" - mental health care. All I need to do is get a proper education through accreditation and/or learning through working and volunteering. For some reason, I think it will take a long time indeed to outsource therapy to a robot.

Any other job or field that will be most resistant to erosion?

user-inactivated  ·  4186 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    For some reason, I think it will take a long time indeed to outsource therapy to a robot.

ELIZA convinced people she was a real psychotherapist.

blackbootz  ·  4186 days ago  ·  link  ·  

True. I meant more complex cognitive brain therapy, with follow-up and an actual human face for interaction. But I concede the point that scarce little is beyond the outsourcing reach of robots and code.

thenewgreen  ·  4188 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What if the work isn't as seemingly useless as pushing buttons on an elevator, but rather being in charge of maintaining a block in your neighborhood. Picking up debris, sweeping the streets, painting the easement etc. It could help instill pride in peoples communities, give a sense of purpose etc. There are any number of functions like that which could be made in to "jobs" that could have positive effects on the community. I would tend to agree that this would likely be less "demoralizing".

mk  ·  4188 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Perhaps. However, it seems strange to think that a majority of people will be born to work for the State, and to be given what the State deems fit for their efforts. You cannot find other work, and you cannot get what you need to live unless you do what the State requires. It isn't entirely unlike Communism.

thenewgreen  ·  4188 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I would support people having more support if they were to work in a "community" program, weeding gardens in public parks etc. Perhaps if you qualify for the work, it pays more than a simple "hand out"? Could be something to aspire to and not automatically receive. Then there would be pride in obtaining the position.