Umm. Wait what? So I'm going to go out on a very steady limb and assume that Big Dongles are a joke about penises, which if I recall correctly are male genitalia. I don't really see the problem. Were they making it to each other or to potential clients? It seemed like it was to each other, like they had sort of a slower part of the day and were friends or just friendly or something and big dongles was this office in-joke or something, then someone happened to overhear them. Wait are dick jokes sexual harassment? Are we, as a culture, so ashamed of a fleshy tube between our legs that mentioning it in a public space gets two people fired? Is there some other reason dick jokes are offensive? I mean, I wasn't there, I don't know the exact joke, but it sounds like exactly the kind of joke you make when you sort of like your job. I'm really trying to understand what she got offended about. Yeah, the code of conduct prohibits sexist, racist, or exclusionary jokes I guess (PyCon is what again?), but are dick jokes any of those? I can't actually think of a dick joke that's somehow any of those, except...I mean I guess it's exclusionary because biological women don't have penises? Wait, what about trans* women? What it sounds like is that a woman at a conference got personally offended by a joke that was relatively non-offensive (again, haven't heard the joke, can't tell), and made a show out of it, because she thought it was the right thing to do. Except she apparently didn't put a lot of thought in to what was right or wrong in the situation, and just went ahead and got a dude fired because of a joke. Part of growing up is understanding that sometimes people will say things that you find personally offensive and that its their right to say it. Its recognizing that going behind people's backs to "defend" a group of people isn't actually going to help anything; problems need to be dealt with directly, not by calling higher authorities to solve the problem for you. Beyond both of those, however, its recognizing that life is not clean and sanitary, and people are going to hold views that might actually be hideously offensive to you, and that simply because they have these viewpoints, it doesn't actually make them a bad person and it certainly doesn't make you capable of determining their career. There are customers who come in to my store every day who are incredibly racist. On 9/11/2012, there was a man in a blue jeans vest with a patch that said "All I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11." I was dead silent the whole time serving him because that's blatantly racist and blatantly ignorant. What I didn't do was call my manager out to handle him because I can't possibly make that decision. What if its a joke? I don't know. It might be? Maybe its an old patch he forgot about, maybe a million different things. When people offend you in these ultimately very minor ways, by saying things, usually the best course of action is to just leave. They aren't plotting a genocide, they're not molesting people, they're making jokes. Sometimes people make jokes. Its a thing that happens, and until the world begins revolving around a central morality its nothing to be offended about.
I think it's worth pointing out that she in no way got a dude fired. Dude's employer got dude fired. She truly had no agency in the situation, and had a right to speak her mind just like the guy did. Given that, if we are going to blame the firing on expression, the fired guy's words were the prime cause and his employer was the one providing the verb.and just went ahead and got a dude fired because of a joke.
I think she had a much larger part in this than you're admitting. If she had asked the guys to stop without posting it on twitter, then it remains a small issue and the employer gives them a slap on the wrist at worst. That is how that situation plays out most of the time; someone says something offensive, another employee keeps it in the company and usually in the circle of coworkers, and the issue is dealt with by a manager or community, whichever is most effective. But she brought it to a public forum, a very public forum, and thus is spun out in to something big when it really shouldn't have been, from everything I've seen. Big Dongles is hard to use in an actually offensive sentence without a myriad of other words that seem to warrant more attention. Either way, if you bring something negative, no matter how small, to a public forum like the internet you are knowingly terminating someone's job in most cases. When you fuck up in private nobody cares, because customers can't see it. Once in public? Anything that gets out that's negative is somebody's fault. That being said, yes, she has a right to speak her mind, and her company has every right to fire her. I certainly wouldn't employ a person who complained about colleagues on a public forum, especially on twitter. There's a certain level of trust you break by doing that, and you can't recover that easily. It'd be really helpful if we could get some clue as to what the jokes were. Like other people sitting near these two guys? I'd be a lot less sympathetic if they said something horrible like "all bitches be chokin' on my big dongle also I hate minorities."
You get some insight from the guy who was fired here: My second comment is this, Adria has an audience and is a successful person of the media. Just check out her web page linked in her twitter account, her hard work and social activism speaks for itself. With that great power and reach comes responsibility. As a result of the picture she took I was let go from my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job. She gave me no warning, she smiled while she snapped the pic and sealed my fate. Let this serve as a message to everyone, our actions and words, big or small, can have a serious impact. I will be at pycon 2014, I will joke and socialize with everyone but I will also be mindful of my audience, accidental or otherwise. Again, I apologize.Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone's repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said "I would fork that guys repo" The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us.
Eh. I guess I'm of the opinion that if you vocalize things in public that others can hear, the people hearing it are under no obligation to censor the fact that they are offended by said public speech and should be bound to communicate their offense privately only, with the implication being that any fallout would now be their fault for being offended "out loud." The thought is actually absurd to me. And I definitely feel that the employer is responsible for the employer's response. Nobody else.If she had asked the guys to stop without posting it on twitter, then it remains a small issue and the employer gives them a slap on the wrist at worst.
They're not legally obligated to censor the fact, but with the way society is structured these days, I think there's an unwritten social obligation to do so, at least in terms of social media. Business monitor their employees social media accounts, and when you bring negative things to those places, you take a great deal of risk. Its the unfortunate reality of a world where you no longer have a private life, in any place or at any time. People like to joke, and jokes usually aren't nice: hence why they're kept for close friends. Sometimes people make jokes in public without thinking about the situation, and sometimes other people can hear them. Yes, they can get offended, and yes they can speak their mind, but they shouldn't bring it to a place where the joke becomes inescapable. I'd rather not live in a world where I have to constantly walk on eggshells or risk losing my job. That breeds an environment which stifles creativity and honesty, because you begin to worry about who you offend and if you should ever speak your mind. Its just not worth having a slightly safer space in public.
It's funny because over the years I remember the reddit admins making very similar appeals to the community over things like witch-hunts.
I literally don't understand what this title is trying to say.
There are so many better ways to deal with possible sexual harassment (and I only skimmed the PyCon article but that's what it sounds like it was) in the workplace than posting it on Twitter. Is that what people read tweets to see? I'm confused. Go to your boss for sure, talk to the men in question, do both, do nothing. But Twitter?
The whole thing was handled horribly. Seriously the chain of events from what I gather: 1) People chilling at PyCon, I assume waiting for stuff to happen 2) Woman hears two men behind her making sexually related jokes. 3) Woman takes a picture of them and tweets it: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/statuses/31341765587910246... in a later tweet she asks someone to "talk to these guys about their conduct? I'm in lightning talks, top right near stage, 10 rows back #pycon" 4) Woman also complains to the PyCon people about it. 5) One of the men is then fired for making these comments/jokes. 6) The woman is then fired for overreacting to jokes. How this should have played out. 1) Woman hears two men making sexual jokes at PyCon. 2) Woman turns around and says "hey can you not say stuff like that? It sort of offends me" 3) Two men probably feel a little awkward and ashamed and stop the joking. 4) I continue not knowing that there is something called "PyCon".
4) I continue not knowing that there is something called "PyCon".
haha, I hear you. That would have been the way to handle it.