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comment by ilex
ilex  ·  394 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: June 5, 2019


Six raccoons later, our birds are noticeably more relaxed and chatty at night! Someone is still coming around and digging near their run at night, but whoever it is has learned to roll the trap over to knock the bait out, so we're going to have to try a couple other tricks on them.

We put pinless peepers on our rooster and he looks like he's wearing little reading glasses:

(he was very polite about the whole ordeal and seems to be doing just fine.)

A Question

Do you think it's possible to meaningfully distinguish someone and the things that person does? Or, in a context: can you love someone and yet think the things they do are terrible and hateful?

kleinbl00  ·  394 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Do you think it's possible to meaningfully distinguish someone and the things that person does?

ilex  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My wife and I were picking cherries the other day and she was singing Are You Gonna Be My Girl. We ended up ripping into it for having terribly misogynistic lyrics even though it's a pretty good bop. Or listen to Fashion Nugget -- especially It's Coming Down -- and reflect on how all the breakup songs just reveal how much the author just doesn't see that his behavior towards his ex was awful.

I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes you can't split the art from the artist's bad parts because the artist put those parts of them into their art.

kleinbl00  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree wholeheartedly. From the linked article:

    The comedians Dana Min Goodman and Julia Wolov said that after Louis C.K. cornered them and masturbated in front of them at the U.S. Comedy Arts Festival in 2002, they feared that speaking out about the incident could risk their careers. While Louis C.K. felt free to flaunt the behavior throughout his comedy — in one scene of “Louie,” Pamela begs him not to start masturbating in front of her — the women were silenced. He took advantage of them, then took ownership of the experience.

Personally, I have a really hard time ignoring context. And art is all about context.

user-inactivated  ·  394 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Do you think it's possible to meaningfully distinguish someone and the things that person does? Or, in a context: can you love someone and yet think the things they do are terrible and hateful?

Without a doubt. I won't give details about what some of the people in my life do that worries me so, because they're not able to be here to speak for and defend themselves. What I will say though is, knowing that people I love embrace attitudes or engage in behaviors that I think are wrong, unhealthy, dangerous, or what have you, is it's important to remind myself why I love them but also why it's important to have boundaries. Just because I want someone to be a part of my life, to be there for them and to help them and support them, it doesn't mean I have to let that relationship cause problems for me, my life, and my other relationships. It's a balancing act, and one that often has me considering and reconsidering where I stand with people and why.

ilex  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What do you do if someone is hurt by where you put a boundary?

user-inactivated  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Here, let me give a real good example. I have a buddy who loves movies. They're over at my place on the fairly regular to watch them with me. However, we never go to theaters together because they can't resist the urge to discuss the movie, while watching it, in a crowded theater. It angers other movie goers and embarasses me, so I absolutely refuse to go to the theaters with them and they know this and understand why. If they want the situation to change, they need to change their behavior, but while they might be frustrated by my refusal from time to time, our situation doesn't detrimentally affect our friendship.

user-inactivated  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Damn. That's a simple question that's hard to answer. I feel like a whole book could be written about this.

Depends on mine and that person's level of communication, trust and respect, and why the boundary was set up in the first place. Can we talk about what that boundary is, how big it is, and why it's there? Can we make choices that will allow us to take that boundary down? If yes, awesome, let's agree to work on things. If no, then I'm sorry there's pain involved, but it's either their pain for the boundary being up or my pain for it coming down. Some people are willing to work with you to make things work, some people not so much. Sometimes I'll make concessions for the sake of maintaining a relationship. Sometimes I just get burned, but you know what they say, "fool me once . . ."

I will say every person in my life is different and I'm an ever changing person with an ever changing life, and as a result every relationship in my life is different and my relationships are constantly changing. I will never not extend out a hand in good will, but the amount of good will I'm willing to offer might be very limited. Similarly, I will always be willing to give people the benefit of a doubt, to appreciate their ability to grow and change, but if I've been burned in the past, I'm not gonna just accept that someone has changed for the better without some good evidence.

Like I said, when I put a boundary up, there's a need for reflection and analysis, because they, myself, our relationship, and probably my relationships with others can all be affected.

ilex  ·  386 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think this is about as good an answer as one can give to that question. Sometimes people are willing to make different choices to move a relationship closer. Other times it's best to leave boundaries where they are, especially if trying to move them in the past ended poorly.

Thanks for your thoughts; they definitely helped my thought process!

user-inactivated  ·  385 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's a shame there's no straightforward, silver bullet answer to these kinds of questions. Relationships, even good ones, are hard.

flagamuffin  ·  394 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Or, in a context: can you love someone and yet think the things they do are terrible and hateful?

i read a really weird longform slice of life piece on the guy who tried to kill reagan. he got out a while back, controversially, moved back in with his mother. says he's reformed but still clearly nuts, although not dangerous. his mom basically said she was so happy to have someone around the house again. she seemed over the moon.

so yeah the answer is gonna be yes as long as you're talking parents and children.

ilex  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think I want to make a distinction here between things people have done and things people do. People can change and can be forgiven for things they have done, but that can only be meaningful if they do different things going forward.

It seems like this guy, despite having done some terrible things in the past, is now not doing those same things. And I think that's an important part of this.

    he answer is gonna be yes as long as you're talking parents and children.
yep this is the exact context I'm thinking through myself right now.

(Also, I would totally buy that guy a beer. Fuck Reagan.)

flagamuffin  ·  392 days ago  ·  link  ·  

yeah fuck reagan

kleinbl00  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah John Hinkley Jr isn't a great guy. He didn't shoot Reagan because he wanted to shoot Reagan, he shot Reagan because he thought it was the best way to impress Jodie Foster.

    I feel very good about the fact you at least know my name and how I feel about you. And by hanging around your dormitory I've come to realize that I'm the topic of more than a little conversation, however full of ridicule it may be. At least you know that I'll always love you.

We're talkin' about a guy who thought Taxi Driver was a love story.

And while I, myself, am not a fan of Reagan, Hinkley created a world where fuckin' Al Haig tried to seize the government.

ilex  ·  393 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, damn, so much for that then.