Hi everyone. This is my first post here and there's a lot I want to talk about regarding the nature of causality. But lets begin with a game, they're always fun.
A challenge to answer the simplest question that it is possible to ask. It follows that the answer must also be the simplest possible answer.
Here's a clue. It's a three word answer and the first two words are: be cause.
Please don't be afraid to speculate or share any concernes about the nature and/or validity of the question. I'll be more than happy to explain.
The question is: Why?
I just keep on going down the explanation tree because I like it, and eventually the kid gets bored.
after a certain point you're like, discussing the nature of reality with a 5 year old. Well, at least I'm enjoying this conversation.
Welcome to Hubski. This game reminds me of the game Phoebe played in "Friends" where she asks her friends what she's thinking and she gives out points for them getting the right answer. The funny part of the gag was that everyone else played along like it was a real game. My guess. Because true.
Be cause true is very close. there is nothing truer ie: straighter than the pure principle Yes. The answer is Yes. AKA Allowance. The most fundamental causal factor, without which nothing is possible. While all specific causes are negations, ie No or dis-allowing(resisting rejecting, excluding) choices, they still require allowance in order to be able to negate, thus the blanket default cause of everything is the principle allowance or simply, Yes. Be cause Yes. Read my other comments for more explanation. Thanks for responding.
Oooooh, it was leafy. Haha. I got the Chandler answer, close to the topic but not the exact word. What are the other 2 English words that would have sufficed that mean the same thing? Is this concept from "A Course in Miracles" or its progeny, or is this self-discovered wisdom?
The definition of Yes is synonymous with that of allowance and unconditional love, since in order to be unconditional it must be by definition absolutely allowing. We can also see that allowing is primarily what the act of loving does. So love is the common factor in all that exists, love is the key and the whole truth, because essentially it just means Yes. Self discovered. Since I realized over 30 years ago that the limited and limiting nature of rote learning and its application only caused me to make assumptions and mistakes, I've been actively dis investing from beliefs and formal knowledge, and I only realized the significance of the principle Allowance (Yes) about 11 years ago. That's when all the dots started connecting at hyper-speed and all the puzzle pieces began rapidly falling into place. It's not just logic and self evidence that tells me I'm on the right track but pursuit of this principle has also lead me to experience some incredible hyper-dimensional phenomena that afforded me some normally unavailable points of view and helped expand my perspective even further. After all, that's precisely what allowance, acceptance, inclusion, aka Love, does. Is it not?
I wouldn't know. I haven't experienced hyper-dimensional phenomena, unless you're defining it differently than the usual way. I've heard that you can get that from some good drugs, but I wouldn't know about that either. The thing about not investing in formal knowledge is that it's possible to delude oneself into thinking one's theory hasn't been thought about and tested a million times before. It can lead people to reinvent the wheel when it's already been done. Thanks for the response though.That's when all the dots started connecting at hyper-speed and all the puzzle pieces began rapidly falling into place. It's not just logic and self evidence that tells me I'm on the right track but pursuit of this principle has also lead me to experience some incredible hyper-dimensional phenomena that afforded me some normally unavailable points of view and helped expand my perspective even further. After all, that's precisely what allowance, acceptance, inclusion, aka Love, does. Is it not?
Dis-investing is not necessarily discounting. It's simply like not putting money on a horse, to not gamble. It doesn't mean I think the horse is going to lose. By dis-investing in beliefs I'm simply eliminating inherent biases so I can approach situations neutrally. That neutrality is what allows novelty, including novel experiences. It is not my contention that formal knowledge is wrong, only that there is always going to be more to it than any conclusion can convey and those limitations cause assumptions and errors. No conclusion is absolute. A conclusion is an ending. All endings are relative. Thus all conclusions are merely rational, not logical.
I'm just breaking it down to emphasize its precise definition and reference to cause, and also to eliminate the need for "of " As in "because of" this or that. By using simply "be cause" I'm just saying "the cause is". Simplicity is after all the whole idea. The fundamental principle must logically be the simplest possible..
Here's another clue. A big one. It's the one and only possible absolute absolute. In other words the one and only absolute truth and the one and only absolutely unbreakable principle, thus the one and only true Law. It is the universal default, it takes absolutely no effort to perform, unlike it's opposite measure whose extreme state takes maximum effort.
What is time flow?It's the one and only possible absolute absolute. In other words the one and only absolute truth and the one and only absolutely unbreakable principle, thus the one and only true Law. It is the universal default, it takes absolutely no effort to perform, unlike it's opposite measure whose extreme state takes maximum effort.
No, that's my answer following the clue you gave: "Because of time flow" as it is the only thing I can think of that fits. 1. If anything must obey sequential order, it requires time and can be argued to be absolute absolute as you have put it. And we require it to react (answer) to an action (question). 2. You can do whatever you want with time, even stop it for a given frame of reference, even treat it as not a continuous and linear change (non-linear time flow or quantised time theory) but you damn skippy can't work without something that takes a role of sequence reference. Sure, you can have ordering without time. Pointing to a line and saying "events progress along this direction as consecutive frames" just substituted velocity for time flow. 3. It takes no effort but manipulating it requires more and more effort in proportion to change. 4. Opposite measure can have a dual meaning, but work. It's either an inverse of time (frequency) or completely changing its direction (time travel). As time measured gets shorter and shorter between something, the frequency tends to infinity. Second meaning… I'm not even close to call myself well-versed in general relativity, but to my knowledge time travel is not possible for any energy. Out of curiosity, what's the answer? You might want to use spoiler tags for that, provided you are willing to share.
That's not the answer but you seem like to kind of person I'll enjoy discussing it with, so here's the answer. It is Yes. the principle Allowance. Also known as unconditional love, because for anything to be unconditional, it must by definition be absolutely allowing. Nothing exits without the necessary allowance to exist, nothing can do without allowance to do, even nothing must be allowed to be nothing. Allowance is the default. It takes no effort to allow but it takes effort to dis-allow, to resist, to reject, to exclude. Under the principle Allowance, all including dis-allowance is and must be allowed, thus it governs absolutely everything and so it is the only possible absolute Law, all other Laws being relative laws or rules, mere measures of the absolute. Time, like everything other than the principle of pure allowance, is a manifestation of the condition dis-allowance, thus also a subject of and is subject to allowance. The principle Allowance is eternal, timeless. It may have once been the only thing that existed but it must always have existed, because without being allowed to it could never have come into existence. Allowance and dis-allowance equate to Yes and No and deal with choice. They are options. Yes is neutral, No is negate-ive (to negate). Position or positive is an inevitable by product of predictive compensation for a negation but that's a later topic. The most basic function in binary logic is yes and no. A Yes or On switch allows current to flow while a No or off switch blocks current flow. Allowance and dis-allowance works exactly the same way. The fundamental basics of causality, of reality, is binary logic. Yes represents infinite potential. No represents finite impotence (No cannot be eternal. Note double negative = neutral = true) And that makes things rather simple, no? Rather than reverse engineer the vast complexity and complication of the final products of manifestation and try to remember all that separate knowledge, like memorizing the multiplication table, now we know how it all began we can just use a simple formula to figure out whatever we need to know whenever we like.
By that logic, I would stop bullets by allowing myself to be hit instead of trying to do something about it. That on the other hand would mean that the only reason I'm hit it's the intent to harm counting as disallowance (of either person who shots or, more humorously, the bullet itself has such intent) since otherwise it should stop the moment I allow it to hit me. That's a state to be precise. Identity operator is pretty much redundant, in a circuit analogy it is represented pretty much by any cable/connector. These are extremely strong assumptions that should take precedence over your allowance principle since it can only exist in a world that permits binary logic. You can of course to say that you allow binary logic to exist, but the minimal case where that can happen is a world where exists only one value: allowance. They are either badly defined since they refer to one another in circular fashion, or one follows from the other and had to follow itself from a preexisting logic. And it had to be the mentioned minimal set of allowance-only world, since disallowance-only would not permit creating any other logic. At the same time, any higher-level logic (trinary etc) could only be a changed into it by restricting it to binary. Sorry to be a rather disappointing conversant, but to me you are making some serious jumps and assumptions that don't really connect in my head. Brass tacks: I can't agree or discuss anything further because of the above holes in reasoning.Time, like everything other than the principle of pure allowance, is a manifestation of the condition dis-allowance, thus also a subject of and is subject to allowance.
The most basic function in binary logic is yes and no.
because for anything to be unconditional, it must by definition be absolutely allowing
The fundamental basics of causality, of reality, is binary logic.
Fair enough. A few paragraphs isn't going to explain a theory that's taken me years to discover the many intricacies of, and what I quickly wrote off the top of my head isn't going to be semantically perfect. The aim was primarily to introduce the principle and provide food for thought. I guess I said too much too soon.
Well, I was working with what I got. Don't take it as an insult or nit-picking, or that I don't enjoy abstract theories (I mean, I study mathematics for crying out loud. Going there without certain inclinations for theorising would feel like the dumbest decision in my life); I think I have provided scrutiny to a set of axioms that you have laid down above. It's possible that I'm misunderstanding you on some purely linguistic manner. It's possible that I'm lacking some central piece that would neatly connect said axioms. It's very likely that I'm missing context, so here is what I understood: If you were to take the universe and reduce it to one concept that is ever-present and absolute, what would it be? Here, this is how it begins to make sense for me: - The concept of allowance exists. - Any action or inaction that happens as the result of allowing it to happen takes no energy, for a given definition of energy. - Since X are allowed, any set of object that interacts in allowed fashion requires no energy, for a given definition of energy. - Any action that goes against allowed course, and hence would change it from allowed evolution, counts as change of holistic state and therefore requires energy, for a given definition of energy. - Creation of anything that is not allowed, be it object, force or interaction, requires infinite amount of energy (F.A.G.D.O.E.) and therefore cannot manifest its effect. Possible definition of energy: any expense for actions that contradict allowed state. I can't dispute that, as it is pretty much a principle of least action applied to an unusual context. Or almost any game, since in this context it would mean: - You can act only within allowed parameters, no matter how broad. - Only actions or interactions happen only with accordance to approved/allowed means of acting or interacting. - Progress of the game will be always the same unless one of the players will deviate from allowed plan of actions in a way that is not itself disallowed. - No changes to the rule mid-game. - No backsies. As of me, present whole thing. I'll read it and as far as my time allows it, I'll give you as fair analysis as I can make. But don't start mid-sentence, I get that you were probably bending what you have in your hand under the purview of my own answer so it might not be complete. Just don't, for a lack of better word, pout in return. I don't come from place of hate, but you better bet that I'll be looking into inconsistencies, assumed or existing, and drop counterexamples. That's how you go with any hypothesis.
Yeah pretty much, but while the law cannot be broken, rules are made to be broken. Dis-allowance must be impermanent if it cannot be absolute, which obviously it can't right? My only other contention is your use of the word creation. But that's really neither here nor there. I see creation and manifestation as sort of opposites, where creating is the designing and manifesting is the manufacturing of the product. Each requires a different and polar opposite mindset, one being a more fluid and open ended bigger picture mind state the other a more rigid and focused mindset. It's a yin/yang sort of thing, and I find the distinction very useful. Yeah. I do like the way you think, and the way you express. How about we take it one step at a time?
Before approaching 'absolutes', here are some of my concerns: If you don't mind, I would rather go with scientific gradation. Law is usually a special case of something more general. For example, if you read the article on principle of least action (POLA) that I have linked above, Newton's Second Law of Dynamics is less general than principle of least action. And POLA itself is a background for more general theories, in this case it would be path integration. Basically laws can't be contradicted only under their own paradigm. Which means that in general they absolutely can be contradicted. In case of physical theories however, theories can be subsets of more general ones. Newton's theory of gravity is a subset of general relativity, which is 'simply' a broader description and can be applied for more cases than the former. It does not mean that one contradicts another or makes it invalid, but one operates under many restrictions (i.e. no time-space as you need separate time and space, space can't be any other than Euclidean. Different cases to both, and many others, are absolutely valid under GR). Here's a thought: are you familiar with Euclid's Axioms? The idea is, in the simplest form, that these are the 'building blocks' for any theorem or proof and only they (or in more complex cases, only axioms along with lemmas which are smaller theorems that result from axioms and are pretty much just shortcuts for more complex reasonings) can be used to formulate them (theorems/proofs). Axioms can't be strictly contradicted, but operating without one or more can be absolutely valid to see for different pictures. In this case non-Euclidean geometries are just as valid for any case where you would use Euclidean geometry, provided that constructions or theorems you want to use don't follow in any way from Euclid's 5th Axiom, the Parallel Postulate. Now the absolutes part. Excuse me if it would seem like I'm making fun of you, because I don't but it might sound like that. That said, I can now also say: "An absolute law is an existence of exactly one absolute law, and it cannot be contradicted or changed". Kind of a bummer, even assuming that I agree with propositions from which this question follows. ___________________________________________ While the first part of my post was largely about semantics, I would strongly recommend going for axioms approach as it seems to be the one that would suit your needs the best. On a side-note, I can wholeheartedly recommend reading Euclid's Elements. I'm on same bandwagon as Abraham Lincoln when it comes to understanding what it means to demonstrate. ;)How about what constitutes a Law? Do you agree that a Law is a principle that cannot be contradicted?
If so isn't it logically evident that there can only be one and must be one absolute Law?
Semantics certainly is an issue. A big one. It is my contention that there is actually only one law and all other axioms we call laws are simply rules. Measures. Because there is a Law which cannot be contradicted by itself or anything else, the principle Allowance, we have one that is distinctly different from all the others. Why don't we at least call them relative laws? Why is there no distinction between the two types of laws? One which cannot be contradicted and all the rest which can be contradicted by a broader, more encompassing "law" But never mind the language for now. Whatever we call it, there can only be one absolute absolute, right? (As opposed to relative absolutes, such as 1000 is the absolute minimum and maximum number of 10mm cubes that make up a perfect 100mm cube). There only one possible value that satisfies the aforementioned example. 1000 10mm cubes. So doesn't it follow that there must be one and yet may be only one, absolute absolute? And if so, how can it be anything but the principle Allowance, or Yes? The only principle that represents infinite potential, for which reason its value is infinite, making it also the only non conclusive absolute? All other Laws include a specification, a limitation, am exclusive negation of some sort, a conclusion. All relative laws are measures and measures are rules. Allowance neither has nor imposes any such limitation, thus is distinctly different for all other laws. How about we look at question of whether the principle Allowance can be contradicted. Do you agree that it cannot? If you believe it can? How and which law contradicts it? Also which known law is not subject to allowance?
Why? Possible self-consistent list of absolute absolutes: - 0 is a natural number. - Each natural number is equal to itself, so for any natural n, n = n. - For any natural numbers n and m, if n = m then m = n. - For any natural numbers m, n, o if m = n and o = n then m = o. - Every natural number n has its successor succ(n) and the successor is itself a natural number. - For all natural numbers n and m, m = n if and only if S(m) = S(n) - There is no natural number n with a successor succ(n) = 0. You can't bend these, all of them are absolutes and I have never even mentioned what exactly natural number is. But with the above guidelines you can always check if a given number is a natural number. It's a minimal set of rules to make them exist, they don't contradict one another and you can be damn certain that they are not in any way relative to each other as far as 'laws' or 'absolutes' go. None of them is more or less important for that matter, but because they are all equally 'absolute', if one of the criteria is not met you are not using it for natural numbers, yet it does not negate the possibility of existence of integers in general. So you have something that does not interfere with other mathematical structures while giving you a complete recipe for any valid natural number. Banach-Tarski Paradox would beg to differ. For out physical universe and under assumption that I can't meld, solder, change shape or apply sufficient ammount of hammer strikes… you are correct. In a purely theoretical/consistent with mathematics approach, you are not. There's actually a whole branch of modern mathematics that deals precisely with this issue and it is called measure theory. No, as shown by contradiction above. Look, you seem to have a conclusion and reasoning that you share here, but I'm getting more and more convinced that it works only under your own paradigm that you didn't share. Let's get further, because I can actually buy your reasoning under a properly defined paradigm where it can be applied. For what I care, you can simply say that you now create a universe where exists one and only one absolute, and this will be your paradigm but you'll have to show me how and why it should result in anything even close to our universe. If the internal logic of such construct is sound, it works and I will have nothing but praise for you. If you want to apply concept of one absolute law to our physical universe then it's subjective (example: I can't agree as almost every counterexample that I gave, each of which working without assuming any will, sentience, sapience, capability for making decision and existence of set direction seems to exist perfectly without any allowance. As in it did not need to be allowed and nothing seems to suggest that it had to be in the first place), and even if true… how would existence of one absolute absolute explain the fact that there is only one? That's an open question that can go either: a) Allowance is infinite, and this is the only absolute truth, hence anything that follows from this fact does not have to depend on something being allowed, since by definition everything is allowed. Here I would pose a question "why exactly do we need allowance as the one law above all others?" or "If allowance is infinite, why can it allow for more absolutes?"… which was my original question. Answer that results with a possibility of asking same question again, without any change to the form of the question, is not an answer. So we have to assume… b) Allowance for one and only one absolute that is not Allowance itself implies that Allowance is not infinite, thus theory is false. Don't ask me if I can agree for X or Y, present paradigm you want to work with before you will go further or I'll end up looking like a complete douchebag who uses freshman mathematics to shot it down before it began to fly. ;) I can work with abstraction that you create, but as long as I have to assume that you talk about our physical universe, we'll be in an infinite loop where you are reformulating your bit and I'm shooting it down. And believe me, I don't take any pleasure from it. Far from it, I feel kinda bad now to be honest. If it's philosophy, define your grounds/paradigm properly. If it's about our universe… you get my point, right?Whatever we call it, there can only be one absolute absolute, right?
There only one possible value that satisfies the aforementioned example. 1000 10mm cubes. So doesn't it follow that there must be one and yet may be only one, absolute absolute?
So doesn't it follow that there must be one and yet may be only one, absolute absolute?
Maths is representational of reality or of a perception of reality. It is not reality. By virtue of being representational it is relative and thus may at best deal with relative absolutes. Furthermore, our maths as it stands today represent a perception, not reality. Zero, for instance is the only representation of an absolute in maths, since all numbers are measures of the absolute, yet nothing cannot be absolute, it must be relative to something, and a measure of nothing is still nothing, so zero can't be nothing. In fact Zero actually means the whole, everything, and the following numbers represent divisions or fractions or fractals of that whole, which seems fitting for the representation of a fractal based reality, no? Allowance by itself does not dis-allow other absolutes or absolute absolutes but, it does allow for their dis-allowance. Nothing is possible without allowance. Saying for instance"swearing is not allowed" is not necessarily dis-allowing swearing. Dis-allowing swearing is actually preventing it from swearing from occurring. If swearing occurs then you have allowed it. It is the one Law above all others simply because it necessarily precedes all others. There can only be one absolute absolute, otherwise one would contradict the other and neither would be absolutely absolute. It's not just my universe It's the logical universe, as opposed to the rational one, and unlike rationale, being independent of rules, context and purpose logic requires no specification of rules, context or purpose. Sorry bro, no offence intended but the only shooting I can see is you shooting yourself in the foot.
No, mathematics is an abstraction. It's not a matter of perception, but operating within strict paradigm and expanding upon it. If particular abstraction can be applied, it does not mean that reality is mathematical, but possesses an aspect that acts within certain set of rules described by mathematics. I do make this distinction. No, that's an interpretation of an abstract notion. One that can exist without introducing comparison other than "equals". Although I can agree that zero does not have to mean "nothing", that's just one of possible interpretations. One that is valid only when you count things. That sounds like an element of the paradigm that I was talking about, valid only upon accepting that allowance itself exists, is necessary and conforms to the other doodad properties that you were talking about. and If allowance of action is p and ¬p does not mean its disallowance, you are not operating under the binary logic that you postulated few post above. Logic itself is just a set of rules, an abstraction. I was not the one to spend years thinking up a theory that can't be clearly formulated in a formal manner. Furthermore, I don't see how you have reached a conclusion that there is some principle of allowance. In fact, you talk about it like its an axiom from which other things in our reality should follow, but don't provide any reasoning above "because it happens, it must have been allowed". That's almost a textbook example of post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. In theories like yours, you have to either assume a set of laws and explain processes in reality by using said laws in a manner that is not self-referential, or take phenomena in reality and show how they can happen and what set of laws must be behind it. You have done neither and your only rebuttal to my counterexamples was boiling down to "because it's allowed". This is not how logic or theory formulation works. Read Elements. Read Mathematics of Meta-mathematics by Helena Rasiowa. Read up about logical fallacies and calculus of predicates. Read almost anything by Ludwig Wittgenstein or Georg Henrik von Wright. That's how you follow with reasoning in maths, science or philosophy. Not by making an assumption about something being a necessary property for stuff you want to explain to even happen in the first place and doing what you have accused me of: applying a purely logical paradigm separated from reality, to answer questions about reality. So what, that's OK but applying mathematical reasoning to rebuke it is not? Get your purview straight. Oh, and I'm not your bro.Furthermore, our maths as it stands today represent a perception, not reality.
Zero, for instance is the only representation of an absolute in maths, since all numbers are measures of the absolute, yet nothing cannot be absolute, it must be relative to something, and a measure of nothing is still nothing, so zero can't be nothing.
Allowance by itself does not dis-allow other absolutes or absolute absolutes but, it does allow for their dis-allowance.
Nothing is possible without allowance. Saying for instance"swearing is not allowed" is not necessarily dis-allowing swearing. Dis-allowing swearing is actually preventing it from swearing from occurring. If swearing occurs then you have allowed it.
It's not just my universe It's the logical universe, as opposed to the rational one, and unlike rationale, being independent of rules, context and purpose logic requires no specification of rules, context or purpose.
Sorry bro, no offence intended but the only shooting I can see is you shooting yourself in the foot.