Hi, this is Anthony Holtberg. I'm glad to see some folks on here who likewise seem to appreciate this game!

OK, metal has no representation here, and this is what I've been listening to. It's definitely not your typical stuff, and isn't quite well known.

Electric Wizard - Return Trip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXpFV9sW2bI

Electric Wizard is the essence of Doom with guitars so down-tuned, the strings hang off the guitar and can be used to fire arrows.

High On Fire - Devilution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euALIidJYsA

High On Fire is the complete package with intense vocals, driving rhythms, and overall listenability. More 'casual' listeners will find this approachable rather than the expected onslaught of guitars and screaming that usually comes with the territory.

Uncle Acid and the Deadbeats - I'll Cut You Down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSpsffboOAc

Moving back to the 60's, this is more like rock today, but the dark edge and disturbing vocals make it more the choice of the metal fan than any 60s metal listener.

Elder - Hexe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y48mDuY8rI0

A symphony of darkness. This song is lengthy, like a journey into some hopeless and dark abyss. Listen to it.

This is stuff I wrote my Master's Dissertation to, in addition to baroque classical. Sometimes you need a little darkness and to behold the apathy of the universe to trudge forward.

I must say it sits quite comfortably with me, and I see no flaws. I can safely say I have indeed identified the task I am best suited for which there is nothing but an endless horizon in accomplishing.

I can only say it is not a thing of comfort, nor is it a thing of accomplishment, but a thing of sober and daunting responsibility.

I do hope we make strides in lengthening the human lifespan...

Religiously athiest cosmologists would do well to acquaint themselves with Stoic physics:

"The main objective of Stoics is to overcome the dualism between mind and matter taught by other philosophical schools. The Stoics achieve this goal by identifying mind and matter with each other and with God. They therefore propose a totally unitary reality, a monism in which God is mind, God is matter, God is the universe. One may speak of mind and matter, but this is merely a façon de parler. For the Stoics, everything that acts is a body. There is a continuum between mind and body. They are completely translatable into one another; they are simply two ways of viewing the content in the continuum. In Stoic physics, matter is not 'dead' matter in the Cartesian sense; it is dynamic, charged with vital force. Mind is not something external to matter, an abstract ideal quality, a principle of rest toward which an imperfect material world transpires; it is rather an active principle, the creative force permeating the universe and holding it together. God is called by several names in Stoic physics--the 'logos', the rational structure of the universe; 'pneuma', the fiery breath of life, the creative fire; or 'tonos', the vital tension holding each thing together within itself and making the whole universe cohere. The entire universe, or God, constitutes one living organism, at the same time sentient, rational, and material, existing in and of itself. The universe is its own creative force and its own source of growth, change, and activity. God, or the universe, is not only its own cause; it is the one cause and explanation of all things."

(Marcia L. Colish, The Stoic Tradition from Antiquity to the Early Middle Ages, pp. 23-4)

Ah, they just never made codes as well as they did back in the Renaissance.

Yes. My favorite AD&D character was my paladin, and this image pretty much sums up why.

While the one side has been treated to death, I know of very few athiests who are educated on religious philosophy.

The notion of the world being older than the bible states is purely a Christian perspective, and hardly answers for the deities in various other cultures. In Judaism and its mystic practices the scale of years is wholly morphic in accordance to the time-frame of the the deity. Sacred text makes no distinction between what mode of calendar is being used.

The Stoic notion of the deity and Einstein's perspective mesh quite neatly (http://books.google.com/books?id=F7lMoretG8EC&pg=PA312#v...; see final paragraph forward).

More clearly:

"The main objective of Stoics is to overcome the dualism between mind and matter taught by other philosophical schools. The Stoics achieve this goal by identifying mind and matter with each other and with God. They therefore propose a totally unitary reality, a monism in which God is mind, God is matter, God is the universe. One may speak of mind and matter, but this is merely a façon de parler. For the Stoics, everything that acts is a body. There is a continuum between mind and body. They are completely translatable into one another; they are simply two ways of viewing the content in the continuum. In Stoic physics, matter is not 'dead' matter in the Cartesian sense; it is dynamic, charged with vital force. Mind is not something external to matter, an abstract ideal quality, a principle of rest toward which an imperfect material world transpires; it is rather an active principle, the creative force permeating the universe and holding it together. God is called by several names in Stoic physics—the 'logos', the rational structure of the universe; 'pneuma', the fiery breath of life, the creative fire; or 'tonos', the vital tension holding each thing together within itself and making the whole universe cohere. The entire universe, or God, constitutes one living organism, at the same time sentient, rational, and material, existing in and of itself. The universe is its own creative force and its own source of growth, change, and activity. God, or the universe, is not only its own cause; it is the one cause and explanation of all things."

Marcia L. Colish, The Stoic Tradition from Antiquity to the Early Middle Ages, pp. 23-4

From this perspective and further careful research, I find conclusions of the existence of a deity that works in conjunction with the assertions of science to be a viable possibility.

The study of Renaissance Western esotericism is necessarily interdisciplinary, as it involves the greatest polymaths in history and so calls on similar talents from its scholars.

They labored under the assertion that there was no barrier between 'physical' and 'supernatural', but that all of nature was physical including intermediary intelligences.

They make a startlingly good case.

It is odd that I am putting quite a bit of time into researching a PhD thesis proposal that flies directly in the face of this. Odder still how much fun it is?

The size of it actually creates a small atmosphere of creepiness. Very cool!

Puffs cigar

I prefer my science fiction dreams to stay away from my living nightmares.

Note 'cognition' and 'understanding' playing key roles, a telling sign of post-Occult Revival symbolism. Psychological jargon is the hallmark of modern esoteric practice and thought.

1) In response to my viewpoint, I am a student of the University of Exeter's Master's programme for Western Esotericism and an administrator on Esoteric Archives. I assure you there is no miscommunication concerning the flow of human history and the role of esoterica within that flow, and if there is a strong civilizational/ethnocentric view, it is of the influence and participation of esoterica in the history of the Western world from Pre-Socratic thought to the current day.

Please inform me of your definition of 'human'.

To the comment of the whole of Romantic to Modern publications consisting of solely 'facile misunderstanding' invalidates the very basis of the initial primary question that sparked this discussion. Why discuss this modern publication if it is naught but 'facile misunderstanding'? Please illustrate an example of enlightened understanding to allow a comparison.

2) The Picatrix, Hermes Trismegistus' Asclepius, the Orphic Hymns, the writings of Jabbar ibn Hayyan, etc. were all available before the Gutenberg was a factor, and in fact contributed to the Renaissance of the 12th century. Only education provided a barrier of access to these works, and certainly nothing directly attributed to an inner circle or cabal of esotericists.

Furthermore, the assertion that esoteric content was meant to be misunderstood is fallacious. The purpose was for it to be rather clearly communicated to those who had carefully educated themselves (such is the case with Alchemical art and the traditions of allegories reaching back to Zosimos of Panoplis). It was devastatingly unsafe to have literature connected to the secrets of immortality and the creation of gold, and, again, the secrecy ensured safety. I reaffirm that mere education provides the barrier, not some conspiratorial cabal purposed with disinformation to create and ensure a 'pseudo-public' discourse. Even your example of the Masnavi is merely limited by education (though I'm curious what you'd define as 'really' understanding).

Is there a filter in esotericism? Absolutely.

Is that filter intentionally created to ensure the idea presented is communicated to a specific group? Yes.

Can this same filter be ascribed to any language, science, art form, culture, etc. in existence? Yes.

Ascribing your filter to occult symbology only functions if you choose to define different forms of language, mathematical expressions, and infra-red radiation as occult symbols.

Naturally, one can argue that only the nobility had the means with which to educate themselves to a degree that could possibly contribute to such a lofty field of philosophical discourse as Renaissance esoterica, but I present the case of the peasant and cobbler Jacob Boehme in retort.

[i](aside: throughout human history, many schools of thought sought refuge in esoterica and clothed their outward appearance in misdirecting, e.g. occult, symbolism both to (a) filter membership (as in spot the bozo) and (b) to permit a pseudo-public discourse that resisted penetration by the uninitiated.)[/i]

The premise for this assertion is a bit baseless unless we alter 'throughout human history' to 'for the last two-hundred years or so'.

Esoterica was primarily esoteric as a means of sustaining one's life rather than filtering membership and permitting a secret discourse (I disagree with the idea of 'pseudo-public', as it was as public as any highly educated discourse; a great deal of the finest esoteric thought was printed and in public circulation).

When one uses the term 'occult symbolism' in this psychologized New Age era, one usually does so without the rather granular nature of the usage and 'purpose' of symbols in esoterica.

For example, Giordano Bruno's 'occult symbols' were prime examples of his mastery of the Ars Memoria. They served as mnemonic devices to focus his mind and encapsulate his thoughts in a time when paper was not so readily available. In this case, his symbols were for himself and no other.

Furthermore, those seals of the oft-reviled Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis were earnestly not intended at its inception to be used as a secret decoder ring, but to quite honestly communicate with daemons for purposes of divine enlightenment (not of a Christian or of a necessarily benign nature).

With the Occult Revival of the 1800s, the Spiritualist movement, Theosophy, Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, etc. all established the elitist, politically charged clubs often injected into conspiracy theories with secret handshakes and ostentatious symbolism (in both rites and writing).

That said, esoterica (properly a product of the Medieval and Renaissance era) promotes refuge in much the same manner as any focused higher level of education.

For more information, I suggest a visit to http://www.esotericarchives.com. Joseph Peterson has provided authoritative translations of texts that have received ill treatment and inept scholarship in the hands of the above-mentioned clubs. I strongly suggest you take a look.