comment by hootsbox

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comment by hootsbox

hootsbox · 4851 days ago · link · · parent · post: The Founders: Religion, Virtue, and Morality and the Success of the American Nation?

The fact that the Bible seems irrational to many can certainly be a point of view that can be "respected", I would take exception and state that it is very "rational". It is not to be interpreted from life experience though: as Proverbs (9:8) tells you to reprove a fool and you will gain a brother, and then in the same verse tell you not to reprove a fool because you will gain an enemy. This is wisdom as there are times you can reprove a foolish person and they humbly change and appreciate your honesty, and on the other hand you try to reprove an arrogant person and you create enmity. So, it may seem "stupid" or "irrational" on its own, it makes perfect sense given the right setting. The great thing about the Bible is that they don't paint this "jaded altruistic" picture of the men and women documented in its pages (as some other religious texts do in some other religions), it paints a real picture of people: their heroism and their human tragedy. It doesn't seek to cover up their foibles and "sins" as it were: it tells the story of how to be free from the basest elements of human nature. It is also to be interpreted with a "spiritual bent or perception" and not just mental logic.

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b_b · 4851 days ago · link ·

By saying the Bible isn't rational, I didn't mean to imply that it is without wisdom, or that one can't gain perspective by studying its contents. Although there are certainly logical inconsistencies in its pages, and one could argue whether this or that passage is or is not rational, I was talking more generally about faith.

I'm admittedly not a man of faith, so I don't have a deep understanding of it, but it seems to me (again, as an outsider) that part of the point of faith is to shed one's connection to the world of logic and rationality and try to gain some other type of experience (spiritual peace or enlightenment, for example, I suppose).

On a related note, when I said the Bible was irrational, it was not meant as a pejorative. I'm not naive enough to think that hyper rationality is in any way a desirable way to live. There are many things that can't in principle be rationalized. To return to the Constitution, I think this can actually be a problem in our legal system. A courtroom is a forum where rationality is given great weight, and it can lead to strange outcomes, where, say, one man goes to prison for light shoplifting, while another goes free on a technicality after committing murder. I won't pretend to know a better alternative, but I think it is clear that rationality isn't always good or desirable.

+discuss+discuss

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hootsbox · 4847 days ago · link ·

I could not agree with you more on what you refer to as "irrational" in that sense. Religious faith is mostly that - faith. It is not a physical touch and feel or mentally logical exercise for sure; it is to hold as true what may not be "seen". Not trying to be overly "preachy" here, but it is basically Hebrews chapter 11 verse 1. I can also agree that the courtroom decisions can be perplexing at times, and I think that "rationalizing" away horrible behavior such as you alude to is to fly in the face of good 'ole common sense. There is a quote from Paul (formerly Saul a Jewish lawyer) which states, "Professing to be wise they became fools"! Sometimes we get so "lofty in our rationale" that we forget the fundamentals of common sense. Good to talk with you b_b.