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comment by mk
mk  ·  890 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Thomas Jefferson statue coming down in New York's City Council chamber : NPR

I disagree with what seems to be a reductionary view of history that led them to that choice. IMO it'd be better for them to put a plaque on it that said something like: "As an individual, Jefferson was a slave-raping piece of shit. However, ironically, the ideals that Jefferson fought for led to the emancipation of slaves in the U.S., and many of the rights that we possess as citizens today."

We are probably all future pieces of shit.





goobster  ·  889 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Hello women, people of color, indigenous Americans, Asians, immigrants, the disabled, and everyone that is not a white man. Welcome to our building. Remember the slave owner who accidentally gave you rights he never believed you should have, due to poor wording on his part. Genuflect before the statue of this imperfect man, rather than living his words and ideals better than he ever did."

The founders of this country were just men. They had some good ideas. Let's run with the ideas, and leave the men as they were; imperfect humans with moments of brilliance. Carrying the baggage of the human being along with their ideas is pointless and destructive to the actual numerical majority of Americans.

mk  ·  889 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ironic that those good ideas allow us to choose what to do with the statue.

    Carrying the baggage of the human being along with their ideas is pointless and destructive to the actual numerical majority of Americans.

I disagree. We all have baggage and the lens of history will increase its impact. We factory farm and eat patented seeds and fly in planes and heat our homes with coal and wear clothes made by poverty stricken peoples in serfdom and use phones made in factories with suicide nets made with materials mined by children and the list goes on and on and we don't care enough for our descendents.

goobster  ·  889 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Ironic that those good ideas allow us to choose what to do with the statue.

In fact, it is not ironic at all. The idea is good, even if the man is not. Just further proves my point.

mk  ·  889 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I do think that qualifies as irony. But ok to agree to disagree.

goobster  ·  887 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For it to be irony, the statue itself would have to express the good idea... which it does not. It presents an idealized image of a man (created close to 200 years after his death) to commemorate a completely different thing.

The piece was commissioned to recognize Jefferson's defense of religious freedom ... which even you, in defending the statue, have failed to equate it with.

A far more powerful and appropriate statue would have been a ring of religious symbols with Jefferson's face in the center of them... arranged around his head like a constellation. That would at least demonstrate the idea the man is being recognized for. So even on an artistic basis, this plaster cast of the real bronze statue fails to live up to even it's most basic purpose and intent of its creator.

user-inactivated  ·  890 days ago  ·  link  ·  

> I disagree with what seems to be a reductionary view of history that led them to that choice.

Doesn't seem to be a fair or charitable interpretation of their case, but an assumption. These points are addressed by the people proposing the change in the video of the city council meeting. And they still provide a good case for removing it from that particular spot in city hall.