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comment by johnnyFive
johnnyFive  ·  1666 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Nancy Pelosi Plans Formal Impeachment Inquiry of Trump

First, I think you're overestimating the reach of the economic recovery. In aggregate things got better, but this was not universal. If you were a 40-year-old man in the midwest with no education past high school, your job prospects did not bounce back the way a 25-year-old with a master's degree's did.

But beyond that, it's a mistake to couch this in solely economic terms. There's a lot more going on than that, and I think there are often situations where our broader political language does not have the capability of describing it. I recently re-read this essay on James C. Scott's Seeing Like a State. One of the key points is regarding legibility, and what happens when groups within a society simply cannot understand one another. After pointing out some researching showing the remarkably positive effects that a high density of "co-religionists" has on a community, the essay continues:

    I know this is hard, but imagine actually being a conservative Christian in a dying town. Everything I just described is going away, nothing seems able to replace it, and things are just getting worse. The most noticeable difference by far is going to be “cultural” – what language would you use? “Loss of faith and family” is actually pretty apt. Let’s say that their arguments are identical to mine, just shrouded in local language. Fine – all that means is that In the final analysis, the conservative christian recognizes that they’re being deprived even of the power to complain, which is to say, even of the power to explain their powerlessness.

So when you talk about people thinking in "very bizarre and nonsensical ways," I think this is what you're really talking about. It really was people not being heard, but it wasn't that no one was listening, it's that the broader population didn't know how.

Because remember, populism doesn't have to look like Trump. Populist parties starting winning elections like crazy all over the western world after the Great Recession. But again, it wasn't just conservatives. For every Trump or Le Pen you also have a Syriza or Podemos.





user-inactivated  ·  1666 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I concede the point. You and Klein certainly know what's going on. I need to brush up on my reading.

So in 10 years social conservatives in rural areas went from already isolating themselves from society (not hanging out with the godless) (creationism in class, fighting gay marriage and abortion) to suddenly seeing a society where gay marriage is legal, there are all-gender washrooms, drugs are legalized, acceptance of non-binary genders happens, etc. All the debate in the mass media over safe spaces and language and whatnot and OH GOD THEY WANT TO NEUTRALIZE THE ANTHEM. Meanwhile it's still a sin to have sex before marriage and you better do it at 18.

At that point you'd certainly feel like you're losing your grip on reality. Guy who says let's build the wall? Probably feels like the greatest breath of fresh air there is. But do I feel bad for them? Fuck no. I try to send them love but then I'm at work and the racist jokes start flying and all of a sudden women are alien creatures who can be harassed and teenagers are there to be fucked with and I need to nope the fuck out of there. Fuck you Ken. Fuck you and your motorcycles and your Jesus tattoos and your 3 ugly kids and your dog and the fact the last thing you condescendingly said to me was "how old are you?" before getting fired. Old enough to vote jackass.

johnnyFive  ·  1663 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah I don't want to defend them as a group by any means. I just think it's worth being conscious of the fact that (1) it's not always because the person is racist and/or stupid, and (2) more broadly, it's always better to have a, well, better handle on a problem before we start trying to solve it.

Where these intersect is in, basically, not doing what you're talking about. It's easy for me to say since I don't have to deal with that on a daily basis, but that doesn't make me wrong, either. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar, and it's worth thinking about what our ultimate goals actually are. If we just want the catharsis of OWNING someone we don't think much of, let's not then expect anything to actually change.