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comment by johnnyFive
johnnyFive  ·  2587 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Netflix's Iron Fist is so awful . . .

So I finally had to see, since I hadn't watched any of the show yet but keep hearing about how bad it was. I watched a couple of the scenes in the third episode (it took that long to have an attempt at a real set-piece?), and they are indeed laughably bad.

A couple of thoughts. Despite my background, I don't necessarily look for realism in fight scenes--watching someone who actually knows what they're doing is kind of boring, since making it look cool also means making it less efficient and less effective. Plus, I train something real. I don't mind watching something crazy if it looks cool! So my issue is less with some of the things you mention, simply because it's fantasy or whatever and I don't care.

But yeah, with Iron Fist it's clear they didn't work at it very hard, and I think that's a bigger issue. I watched one fight scene towards the end of episode 3 where a character is in a cage match of some kind (I was just skipping through trying to find one). It doesn't look choreographed, it looks staged. The opponent literally grabs his own fist before striking, a classic "I'm punching with this hand" move. The character fighting him, who was much smaller, gets a ridiculous amount of leverage in a couple of places (requiring some suspicious editing). But the filming seems bad too...the director doesn't seem to have a good sense of space the way some others do.

To your list of good choreography, I'd add Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and The Raid.





user-inactivated  ·  2587 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    A couple of thoughts. Despite my background, I don't necessarily look for realism in fight scenes--watching someone who actually knows what they're doing is kind of boring, since making it look cool also means making it less efficient and less effective. Plus, I train something real. I don't mind watching something crazy if it looks cool! So my issue is less with some of the things you mention, simply because it's fantasy or whatever and I don't care.

Oh trust me. I totally agree. I tend to call martial arts films "ballet for men" and tell people if they want to see what real fights are like, they're better off watching a boxing match or two drunk frat boys wrestling in the backyard in a sad attempt to impress any onlooking ladies. That said, I could have sworn you've said before you also like to indulge in the random martial art film, and since I knew you teach Kung Fu, you'd be a good shout out.

As for the suspicious editing, I think that's a huge part of the problem. In a lot of action movies, martial arts and otherwise, there tends to be camera trickery involved to make things feel more dramatic, so strikes and blows feel more impactful, actors seem more imposing, etc. You can have good camera editing to hide a subpar performer, like Finn Jones, a solid, continuous shot to show off the talents of the performer, like Jet Li and Jackie Chan, or good camera editing to complement the action that's taking place on screen. I think part of where Iron Fist fails is that they had continuous shots to show off the performers, but the performers weren't that good.

As for the cage scenes? Those were bad stereotypes. Like "Bloodsport isn't a realistic premise" level of bad. I gave up after Episode 10, where the climatic fight scene involving Danny Rand and Davos escaping from the compound and taking on waves of enemies left a horrible taste in my mouth. You should watch the second half of that episode. It's laughably bad.

johnnyFive  ·  2586 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, although I don't think a boxing match is especially realistic...it's still very controlled and sanitized (thanks to having things like "rules").

But yeah, the editing tried to make things more dynamic, but all that did was show off the lethargy of the fights themselves.

user-inactivated  ·  2586 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think what sports like boxing, wrestling, MMA, illustrate really well is that not every blow or move is gonna be dramatic, is gonna be pretty, is gonna be effective, etc. while at the same time showing how resilient the human body can be to trauma (though as we learn more about the human body and brain, we're quickly learning the long term severity of cumulative trauma). Even though it's much more controlled environment, it's still very real and very serious, even if its not always pretty.

johnnyFive  ·  2586 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's true enough, but in terms of an "out there" fight, it's still very different.