Super interesting stuff. I second OftenBen and recommend making a tag. I'd like to comment a bit on religion as an identity. Especially in the modern practice of religion, this is immensely important. I have no idea what factor it played waaaaay back in the day but today it is probably the main reason people join or continue to practice religion these days. I just listened to a podcast about Jonestown and it's fresh in my mind so here's one example. Jonestown is often portrayed as a nutty group of mindless followers who went off to Guyana to follow a nutty dude to "drink the Kool Aid". In reality, the earliest followers of Jim Jones were people who felt connected to him and the message he was spreading. He started attracting followers in early 1950s - you had major issues with race and integration happening across the country. You also had the McCarthy Hearings going on. There was a massive amount of ostracism towards a whole number of different groups of people. Poverty, neglect, hatred, social uprising, etc. Every one of his followers were attracted to belonging to a group of people - and following a man - who they could relate to in those regards. They stuck around and almost 1000 people followed him to Guyana because of that and his promises of a better life. The desire to belong and share your life with likeminded people is simply human nature. It comes in many forms - family, friends, religion, cults, internet forums, gangs, meetups, etc. Religion is more than just belonging to a group and sharing with likeminded people but it is one thing that all religions have in common - from today to waaaay back in the earliest of religions. One of the most interesting things about Jonestown was that the beliefs of this religion/cult weren't anything new or awe-inspiring. They literally just believed that socialism and traditional Christianity would solve their social problems. In terms of religion or believing in a higher power, it's barely there. Even in the tapes of the congregants final moments, they don't speak of a God or gods. They speak about life and death and the turmoils of life and how death is easier than life. The only person they thank for their life, etc. is Jim Jones ("father") who has made himself out to be a prophet at this point. Anyways, this is what makes religion so interesting to me. You know what religion is when you see it - when you hear about it - but there seem to be exceptions to every definition of religion that I've ever heard. Even the hardcore atheists - the ones who preach atheism and go to atheism meetups - seem to be more and more like a religion these days.
Well back in the day, religion and national identity were often one and the same. The tribes of Israel are a great example of this. For example here, the concept of a cosmic duality (a good diety such as God and an evil element such as the devil) is something that is quite recent in human history. From what I can remember, and I'll double check this in the morning when I'm thinking with a more clear head, Zoroastrianism was the religion that got that whole ball rolling. It was when the Jewish tribes came into contact with Zoroastrians that the idea of a cosmic duality was introduced into the Abrahamic Faiths. Before then, the belief that there were many gods was very common. In the Ten Commandments for example, God (capital "G" as in the one main God as far as Jews, Christians, and Muslims are concerned) said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." What he's saying is, you can worship other gods if you want, but you need to understand that I am the TOPS. In the Middle East, there were many tribes and many of them worshipped their own gods. The gods they worshipped tied into their national identity. If you want a peek into how the religious beliefs of these tribes affected their concept of national identity, check out this article on The Moabite Stone. What's really interesting about people who choose to congregate over shared interests, whether they be something philosophical like religion or the lack there of, hobbies such as gaming or ham radio, or professional such as medicine or engineering, is that they all eventually develop codification in everything from jargon to accepted beliefs. It creates a shared culture that becomes so strong that to go against what is considered group norms brings about the risk of being ostracized. When I was in college, one of my religious history teachers was talking about how both atheist and non-denominational Christians groups (two more recently developed religious subgroups in America)have largely homogenized over the course of a few decades.I'd like to comment a bit on religion as an identity. Especially in the modern practice of religion, this is immensely important. I have no idea what factor it played waaaaay back in the day but today it is probably the main reason people join or continue to practice religion these days.
Even the hardcore atheists - the ones who preach atheism and go to atheism meetups - seem to be more and more like a religion these days.
I'm going to do everything I can not to crush these but I will add this: Indeterminism was the principle contribution of Zoroastrianism to world faith. It wasn't entirely monotheistic - Ahura Mazda created the world, and on it the twins Spenta Mainyu and Angra Mainyu. Spenta Mainyu was light, Angra Mainyu was dark, and Ahura Mazda was creation. The important concept was human involvement in the battle between Spenta Mainyu and Angra Mainyu - "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" and Spenta Mainyu will win out in the end. It wasn't just animistic spirits and all-powerful deities determining history and the way of things, people actually had the ability to shape their own cosmos. Parsees are the shit. From what I can remember, and I'll double check this in the morning when I'm thinking with a more clear head, Zoroastrianism was the religion that got that whole ball rolling. It was when the Jewish tribes came into contact with Zoroastrians that the idea of a cosmic duality was introduced into the Abrahamic Faiths.
Bro, you can add as much or as little as you want. Your input is valued and like I said, part of the reason I think it's a good idea to have these threads public is to keep concepts and facts in check. :) I just feel like quoting this, to add emphasis on it. In my opinion it's a very empowering concept when you think about it.I'm going to do everything I can not to crush these.
It wasn't just animistic spirits and all-powerful deities determining history and the way of things, people actually had the ability to shape their own cosmos.
Thing is, when those with certainty debate those without, certainty tends to overwhelm uncertainty even when it's wrong. I'm in a much stronger place when it comes to religion and religious history than a lot of the people here, and this is the sort of debate that occurs best between matched debate partners.
I'm guessing you know that you just paraphrased Bertrand Russell - Bertrand Russell (It's not my intention to call anyone stupid, though)The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Charles Darwin, in 'Descent of Man', 1871ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge