I would just like to point out that "following" grendel does not mean "agreeing" with grendel. Sometimes I like to read things I disagree with; is that some sort of crime or moral shortcoming in your book? I like to read contrarian points of view, even if it means rejecting 85% of it as sexist, racist or otherwise worthless smut. It is true though, his spat with fanficguy is immature, and he should probably feel embarrassed by it; I'm not sure why you guys keep taking his bait there.
Where do you get crime from? Little hyperbolic don't you think? Grendel isn't here to participate in the community. He's here to campaign. It's why he blocks everyone who disagrees with him. His hate-riddled anti-women posts aren't interesting or original, and I do think less of anyone who follows him, yourself included. As for why he's worth discussing, because more will come. And if enough angry, sad people like him take over the site, it will probably stop being one I'm a part of. So he is an interesting case study, and hopefully helps hubski harden itself against future legions of idiots.
Yes, it was a little hyperbolic, but again, my point is that just because I follow him, doesn't mean I agree with everything he posts or says, and I don't think it's morally wrong to expose oneself to conflicting or even hateful ideas; those are the kind of ideas that make me angry and impassioned. If we want to extend the "mold" metaphor here, I like to think of myself someone who studies all the different kinds of mold, who can tell the different species apart, and perhaps even identify the difference between mold and just really ugly wallpaper. Back in high school, I used to spend a lot of time seeking out Christians on the internet with hateful opinions against gay people (I'm gay, btw), trying to understand where they were coming from, sometimes arguing against them. It was often futile, but occasionally I would find people who could still hold a respectful discussion, and I'd like to think that I (and the people I engaged with) grew from those experiences. In college, I would often listen to this preacher who would come on campus to preach "Christianity," but really it was mostly sexism, racism, bigotry, and anti-intellectualism; one of my favorite pastimes was standing there between classes and listening to him, sometimes arguing with his supporters. I liked to hear the arguments, seeing which ones were strong, which ones were weak, sometimes laughing at the angry ones who would just shout an obscenity in response. It wasn't for everyone, my partner hated even being around him, which is just different strokes for different folks. Sure, on one hand he was getting the audience and attention that he craved, and even the negativity he received probably only served to reinforce some deep-seated persecution complex, but I think in the long run, he only hurt his cause. If you want to tar me for following him, or not blocking him, or for being a white cis male, by all means, go right ahead, I'll be the last person to stop you. For the record, I'm in favor of making it more public when someone has a bunch of people blocked or muted, so we can see the people who carefully curate echo chambers in their posts. This idea has been discussed and the admins seem to have good reasons for not implementing it, so perhaps there are different solutions.
You say you follow him to expand awareness, or keep enemies close kinda thing. I get that. I lurked MRA back when I used reddit. This is different. He trolls a tag, posting things that are exactly opposite of that tag on purpose to rile and offend. Then you share it. You've not only given him the soapbox he wants, but you've actually propagated it around to people who follow you. And worst of all, I see no actual shares of any feminism related content. You say you follow a contrarian viewpoint, but all the evidence points to exactly the opposite. You were the 3rd person I filtered on hubski. I took you off that list recently because it seemed like you'd chilled out, but after this discussion I'm going to take a break for a bit. I'm not going to mute you because I don't want to force you out of my posts, but please don't make me reconsider that. I'll check back in a while and maybe in the future we can get along better. In the meantime, why not try following users like tla instead of toxic jerks? From your debate style and post history, I think there's a lot more you could learn there. or for being a white cis male
C'mon dude. Not cool. I have no problem with white guys, why is that information even relevant? This is the same baiting as the crime comment. Stop it.
Right, but c'mon, it's your right to block or filter whoever you want for whatever reason you want. I'm not saying you in particular have a problem with white cis males, but if someone did, they're within their rights to act on it. That is the framework this site gives you. You don't have to listen to someone you don't like if it bothers you that much. I'm not sure what you mean here. Am I supposed to share posts I find offensive? I may read it, I may comment on it, but if I don't think it's worthwhile to propagate it, I won't share it to those who follow me. The only soapbox he has is the one he makes for himself. I have my own soapbox and it is mine, not his or yours. If you don't like the stuff grendel shares, filter him. If you don't like what I share, filter me. If you don't like what either of us share, then filter us both! Is this rocket science, or am I just taking crazy pills!? If you want to go through and filter everyone who follows grendel, then be my guest. Hell, I'd recommend filtering everyone who follows someone who follows grendel, just to be safe since you sound particularly thin skinned. Can't be too safe these days, but that's up to you, obviously. Go right ahead and filter me, don't let my contributions to this site annoy you if that's the way you feel. If you want to mute me because you don't like what I have to say or how I say it, I won't feel offended, and you shouldn't feel bad. I'm honest about my opinions and I know there is always something I can learn from other people; I never allow myself to make rude insults, but apparently that rubs some people the wrong way. I try not to judge other people and tell them what they can learn, I'd rather focus on what I can learn, but that's just me. The three tla posts I can see in her or his profile (petski fluff, shitstirring, and Hillary propaganda from WSJ) do not inspire me to follow that person yet, though. C'mon dude. Not cool. I have no problem with white guys, why is that information even relevant? This is the same baiting as the crime comment. Stop it.
And worst of all, I see no actual shares of any feminism related content. You say you follow a contrarian viewpoint, but all the evidence points to exactly the opposite.
You were the 3rd person I filtered on hubski. I took you off that list recently because it seemed like you'd chilled out, but after this discussion I'm going to take a break for a bit. I'm not going to mute you because I don't want to force you out of my posts, but please don't make me reconsider that. I'll check back in a while and maybe in the future we can get along better. In the meantime, why not try following users like tla instead of toxic jerks? From your debate style and post history, I think there's a lot more you could learn there.
Out of curiosity, I looked at who follows Grendel and what I realized is that most of the people that follow him at the moment are people who came during either the whole fat people hate banning episode or the Ellen Pao firing and a good number of those people don't really posted on Hubski anymore. They posted a couple of things their first day or two and then didn't post again. It's seems like it's basically Grendel and himself right now as he doesn't really have people who actually support him. Also for the record, I have disagreed with Grendel many times but he has yet to block me as he replied to me yesterday.
Have you convinced grendel of this yet? I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe you're doing that since you follow him. And since as I understand it, following outranks filtering, I get to look for him in follow lists before I decide to follow anyone. He isn't and won't be. He'll go even further past the line next time. He continually escalates his abhorrent behavior. Because he's making me reluctant to tell people about hubski.I would just like to point out that "following" grendel does not mean "agreeing" with grendel.
even if it means rejecting 85% of it as sexist, racist or otherwise worthless smut
he should probably feel embarrassed by it
I'm not sure why you guys keep taking his bait there.
Why do I need to convince grendel of anything? Hubski is not like reddit, we are all individuals here, not part of some imagined grendel-hivemind. It's something I struggled with when transitioning from reddit as well; if you read or post in a particular subreddit, you're engaging with this amorphous blob of pseudonymous users in a giant peanut gallery, which makes it hard to really pick out and get to know individuals; reddit-culture is like chan-culture, it thrives on that dissociative anonymity. Sure, you can treat people like subreddits, but you're really doing the hubski model a big disservice if you do. You're free to follow, unfollow, block, filter, whatever, for any reason you want. Curate your feed; don't be lazy then complain about about the community because of your own laziness. I'm pretty sure if you have someone blocked, even if someone you follow shares their post, it will not appear in your feed. I know I have particular tags blocked, and even if the people I follow post and share content with that tag, it does not appear for me. So? He acts a fool with idle shitstirring and drama-starting; if he does it repeatedly and it pollutes my feed enough, I'll unfollow or filter him, like you should have done a long time ago. If you do already have him blocked/filtered, then I'm inclined to say it's a bug that you're still seeing his content. Trolling posts like that thrive on a big breathless reaction like this. QQ. There's a person on the internet who's an asshole! I don't recommend the internet to friends. Have you convinced grendel of this yet?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe you're doing that since you follow him. And since as I understand it, following outranks filtering, I get to look for him in follow lists before I decide to follow anyone.
He isn't and won't be. He'll go even further past the line next time. He continually escalates his abhorrent behavior.
Because he's making me reluctant to tell people about hubski.
So he'll fuck off and stop shitting the place up. He isn't going away because he thinks his echo chamber of followers love him. He loves the echo chamber he's building. He thinks he's accepted because people in his echo chamber of followers and people who he hasn't muted tell him he is. Literally. And then they go outside his echo chamber all inspired by him to protest feminism and black lives matter and explain how white man is the most oppressed. Containing a toxic spill isn't possible if people walk through it. This is a social problem with a social solution. But we are attempting to rely on technology instead, and it's backfiring. We can filter? Wow why didn't anyone say so... oh, wait, they did. I did filter him. I've said so before. Repeatedly. He's been filtered since the day I made a hubski account. But I still can't escape his shit. He keeps showing up ANYWAY. ("Hmm, I don't remember that thread" click "FFFFUUUUUUUUU"). He keeps showing up when I look at people's user pages and look at their recent comments and end up on his threads; OP doesn't get listed in "crafty · link · parent · +! · post: What freedom of speech isn't" He keeps showing up on community when people telling him off gets upvoted. OP also doesn't show up in "kleinbl00 · link · parent · +! · post: It's a White Man's Internet" He keeps getting in my way because all y'all keep giving him the attention he's trolling for. The latest one I didn't even have to click on the thread, I just went to the community page. The title was enough. And I also already knew what it was about because I saw the triggering conversation in my chatter. Don't. Blame. ME. Why should I have to not click on links on hubski because it might be a stealth blocked person? It's kinda defeating the point, yo. I keep mentioning all this. I don't blame the hubski team for not keeping up, there are a lot of issues to deal with. I mentioned it all back a month ago and was told to just wait it out. I've mentioned it since. I mentioned it the other day. I get told it can't be fixed if I don't mention it. Sure when I do mention it I get thanked and that's nice. But I also get shit piled on me in the most amazingly condescending way, and told I'm fucking lazy, or told to be quiet and wait it out. Doge forbid I get angry about it. No wonder others are nervous about pointing stuff out. Get off my back. Nice strawman. I can't recommend hubski as a chimpire-free alternative to reddit when it is heading for the exact same problem. It only takes one Cat Piss Man to ruin a place this small, and ours is malicious to boot. It's literally killing my experience of hubski, why would I invite others to experience the same? And you. You're part of that experience. Congrats.Why do I need to convince grendel of anything?
like you should have done a long time ago
I don't recommend the internet to friends
The user you're responding to is completely full of it. He spreads the anti-feminism stuff around and his comment history is full of pro-troll posts. I know you're frustrated that these people exist and are so active here, but I think the Hubski team is working on it. Keep in mind you have double his followers, the Hubski community is overwhelmingly more interesting in what you have to say then people like him. I don't think there is much point talking to someone who is so completely nutty. He's not going to cave, or suddenly learn how to handle an intelligent conversation. I'm not going to tell you not to get mad, or not to hold users to a higher standard. I'm just posting so you know you aren't alone, and that users like him won't matter much in the long run. Hang in there lady.
I'll keep it short and sweet because, frankly, I don't think this: is correct. It's not me that is giving him all this attention, I don't really care about the guy. He posted a couple interesting articles, I commented on/shared a small fraction of them; it is other people, people like you, this entire recent round of reddit diaspora, that is starting and perpetuating the issue on both sides; hubski was a much nicer place before all of you people showed up. I don't think I've ever said anything racist or sexist, and if I have, I would make a genuine apology for it, but you people are an unrelenting mob, who refuse to stop complaining about one person. At any rate, good luck on your personal crusade, and with all due respect, don't hesitate to filter me, I wouldn't want to negatively impact your delicate sensibilities. By the way, it is my personal opinion that dem dank maymays deserve to stay on reddit, but hey, to each her own, right? y'all keep giving him the attention he's trolling for.