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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Tesla Dead Last in Dealer Experience, First in PR

The whole problem with the FT-86 was it was the car Subaru chose not to make AWD. Had they made that thing the WRX minus the fuggly it'd be a cult item already. As it is, it's a $30k Scion, which is like a down-market toyota.

There's a big difference between "showroom" and "dealership." tesla has no problems building showrooms. They have quite a few. More than that, they're friendly, hands-off places where you can ask questions but since the attendants there are on salary they have no incentive to bug the shit out of you.

A Tesla showroom feels a lot like a Ferrari showroom. It's much more about evangelism and much less about sales. Sales are assumed to come through other channels.





user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, it's rumored that Subaru doesn't ever want the car to compete with the WRX/STI. They're afraid it would cannibalize their WRX sales, which some people think is crazy because they're two entirely different types of cars. Not only is that part of the reason it's rwd (though the main reason is because that's what Toyota wants) I think that's also part of the reason why the engine is "lacking in power." I put that in parenthesis because that's a common complaint for the car, when in all honesty, I find the power levels of the engine sufficient.

A lot of people say that Toyota wanted to bring the GT-86 to the US under the Scion marque to prop up Scion's sales or because they don't think the American market is receptive to sporty Toyotas anymore. I think that's part of the reason, but I also think there's another reason. The build quality on these cars is not up to par with Toyota's regular offerings. The interior itself is decent, but to save weight they cut back on the sound deadening material, which greatly increases road noise. The paint is your typical thin, soft Subaru paint. You so much as look at it wrong and you get paint swirls and rock chips. Then there's the whole deal with the tail light condensation, chirping fuel pump, and a few gremlins here and there, and suddenly the car starts to feel a bit cheap. I think Toyota knew this would happen from the get go, so they brought the car under the Scion marque because Scion is the "cheap" Toyota.

So, why am I bringing up the FR-S and comparing it to Tesla? Because they're both niche cars. They have different target demographics, yes, but they're still niche cars. So let's take a look at the yearly sales numbers for the FR-S. If you take a good look, the sales numbers started out strong, but month after month they're steadily dropping. The pent up demand for the car has been satiated and Toyota is starting to see the limits of demand for that model. Without a mid-model refresh or something drastic (which more than likely won't happen, because of Subaru and the WRX), these numbers will continue to decline. The only thing that can keep numbers going is visibility. That's why Tesla needs its displays. With only one model on offering at the moment, they need to remind people that they want their cars. Their sales numbers are currently all over the place, but that's probably due to a number of factors. I think if they were a traditional car company, they'd be seeing the same drop.

For the sake of science, here are the numbers for the Chevrolet Volt and the Nissan Leaf. Chevrolet is slowing, Nissan is growing. Maybe I'm talking out of my ass. Though if we look at the Nissan 370z there is evidence that a niche model only lasts so long.

tla  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    some people think is crazy because they're two entirely different types of cars.

For example, the whole point of a WRX I am led to believe, is the excessive consumption of fossil fuel.

user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, even when you're running a 4 cylinder engine, that forced induction can really start to cut away at your fuel efficiency.

kleinbl00  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Economy, not efficiency. It's hard to slap on a turbo and lower efficiency. Gas mileage? Oh yeah. You can kill that with prejudice.

tla  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

A friend of a friend used to have an early WRX. Used to because he noticed that he could literally watch the fuel pin move. Thought it was a defect, got it checked out. Nope.

user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Man. One of my first cars was a 5th Gen El Camino with a high output 305. I feel his pain.

kleinbl00  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

LOL. We pulled salvage on a '73 Cadillac Fleetwood. Its path had intersected with a parked Honda Civic that had pulled over under an overpass to wait out the rain... except it was I-25, night, and the dude hadn't actually pulled over. The Fleetwood had been written off by the insurance company. We bought it because we wanted its heart: a 502 bored out to 530 CID, rebuilt less than 3,000 miles earlier.

We drove that fucker away. It burned a quarter tank in 20 miles. When we started stripping it we needed three people on the hood 'cuz it was 6 feet by 7 feet and weighed about 250 lbs. By the time we had the bumper and fenders off we'd determined that annihilating a Civic at 75MPH hadn't so much as bent the subframe (nor punctured the radiator). The thing was like a freight car.

user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

They really did build some monsters back in the day.

kleinbl00  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I would argue the FR-S is a halo car not a niche car. It's about as garden-variety a sports car as you can get. Problem is, for what they cost it's competing with the Hyundai Genesis, which has a lot more utility (and better build quality).

I'm guessing you're not in Los Angeles. Teslas have a few advantages going for them:

- use of the carpool lane without carpooling

- highest Consumer Reports rating of any car ever rated

- highest Smug concentration of any vehicle on the road

...and they're priced in line with a BMW 7 series, which means you didn't buy one because you're a granola freak like Jodi and her fucking Nissan Leaf. You bought one because you're an ascendant broker that cares for the environment.

And they're everywhere.

The 370Z is crazy fucking expensive for what you get. a high-end Z roadster is within shooting distance of a low-end Boxster and there's no way someone's paying Porsche money for a Nissan.

user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I would argue the FR-S is a halo car not a niche car. It's about as garden-variety a sports car as you can get. Problem is, for what they cost it's competing with the Hyundai Genesis, which has a lot more utility (and better build quality).

I'd argue that halo cars are often niche cars. Keeping in the theme of Japanese automobiles, we can look to the Acura NSX and Lexus LFA as examples. Part of the problem with the FR-S here in the states is that competition is fierce. I would know. I cross shopped it against a Ford Mustang GT, Mazda Miata, and Subaru WRX. There's tons of other cars in or near the segment, such as the Dodge Charger and Challengers, Chevrolet Camaro, Hyundai Genesis, Civic Si, and probably some others that don't come to mind right now. Competition is fierce right now, which is great. I'm not denying though that if you get an FR-S or a BRZ, you're probably gonna make some concessions.

    I'm guessing you're not in Los Angeles. Teslas have a few advantages going for them . . .

I will admit that I do not live in Los Angeles nor do I have the income to even entertain the idea of purchasing a Tesla, so I'll concede to your better judgement on that. I do have to say, you bring up some pretty compelling advantages.

    The 370Z is crazy fucking expensive for what you get.

If I remember correctly, which I may be wrong, the 350z started out reasonably priced. When it became the 370z and as time went on, the prices really started to jump up. It's not a car I would want and for that kind of money I'd indeed get something else myself, which is probably the logic behind its declining sales. At this point though, Nissan has pretty much wrung out the VQ37 engine for all its worth. I don't think the engine nor the 370z is long for this world.

kleinbl00  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I was going to posit that a rising yen took the wind out of the 370, but when the 350 debuted the yen was about 40% higher than when the 370 bowed, so I dunno.

I know I have better things to do with my money.

user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I really don't know how economics work, so I can't posit on that. Sometimes though I think I should try and figure it out, as the strength of the yen seems to have an impact on Honda's and Toyota's export prospects.

kleinbl00  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Stomped the shit out of Mitsubishi. The 3000GTVR4 was introduced at $34k in 1991 and left the market at $76k in 1998. That's all exchange rate.

user-inactivated  ·  3452 days ago  ·  link  ·  

God. That really makes me wonder how any Asian import was able to fare in the late 90s. Maybe they were taking hits?

I think someone posted here that part of the reason Germany is unwilling to let Greece and other countries back out of the Euro is because they need it to prop up their export car market. BMW and Audi seem to be pushing the limit for the price of their cars as is. A jump like that would absolutely kill their sales. God knows no one would pay an extra $10-15k for a lame VW.