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comment by Wintermute
Wintermute  ·  2171 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Greece and eurozone reach agreement in bailout talks

Well, I guess I don't really understand the Greek model of government. We don't have any equivalent to a national referendum in the US, but we do in California (where I live). It can actually be quite a pain in the ass at times because politicians can't just change their tune contrary to a pulic vote here.

If the same vote had been held in California, it would have created a legal requirement that the politicians not introduce new austerity measures. I guess I naively assumed that a similar mechanism existed in Greece. Instead it appears that Greek referendums are closer to Whitehouse.gov petitions in terms of political power.

shiranaihito  ·  2170 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    politicians can't just change their tune contrary to a pulic vote here

They can just ignore the Constitution though, whenever they think it's "necessary". Bradley Manning didn't get a fair trial for example.

The all-encompassing surveillance kind of flies in the face of the Constitution too.

So basically, you're placing way too much faith in laws, which is of course exactly what they want you to do.

But in reality, the only limit on what rulers can do, is what the masses let them. Can they monitor everyone without getting overthrown by force? Then they'll do it.

Can they brutalize OWS protesters without getting overthrown? They'll do it.

Can their thugs arbitrarily confiscate people's property when they feel like it? They'll do it.

"Governance" is an euphemism for enslavement.

Wintermute  ·  2169 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Here" in the quoted bit referred to California, not the United States. California's state government is severely hamstrung at times by state constitutional amendments passed by popular vote. See, for example, Prop 13.

shiranaihito  ·  2169 days ago  ·  link  ·  

California is part of the very same United States whose government ignores its Constitution whenever "necessary", though?

Wintermute  ·  2168 days ago  ·  link  ·  

... Yes, but that has nothing at all to do with my post?

shiranaihito  ·  2168 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know what we're arguing about so I'll just stop :p

deepflows  ·  2171 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For one, the Greek didn't get to vote about further austerity measures. They voted against a deal which wasn't in the cards anymore by the time they said "Oxi". Second, I doubt there would have been a referendum if the results were legally binding.