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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  3441 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Repugnant Conclusion

Yes, I assumed that's what you meant. I disagree, and a Buddhist might be offended.

I also do not think that maximizing utility and maximizing happiness are the same thing. You seem to be describing hedonism, not utilitarianism.





sullyj3  ·  3434 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I mean, hedonistic utilitarianism is a thing. There are a bunch of different variants of utilitarianism with differing ideas of what utility should be.

aeromill  ·  3441 days ago  ·  link  ·  

> I disagree, and a Buddhist might be offended.

Buddhists seek to eliminate pain which is Utilitarian as Utilitarianism seeks to maximize happiness and minimize pain.

>I also do not think that maximizing utility and maximizing happiness are the same thing.

Utility is actually happiness by definition: "Utility is defined in various ways, including as pleasure, economic well-being and the lack of suffering." I'm not describing hedonism as I'm not solely referring to bodily pleasures as the good.

shiranaihito  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think "utility" would be better defined as "applicability as a means towards an end".

aeromill  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Within the context of philosophy utility, especially for utilitarians, is not usefulness, it's happiness. It's called utility because it's useful towards the end of happiness.

shiranaihito  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So "utility" is both "happiness" and "something that's useful towards the end of happiness".

In other words, it's both the end and the means towards it at the same time? But that makes no sense. That's like saying the act of driving a car is both "getting someplace" and the means towards it.

    "Utility is defined in various ways, including as pleasure, economic well-being and the lack of suffering."

Not only that, but Utility is also various things that aren't at all related to how the word is commonly understood. This is like me defining a strawberry as something that could be an apple, an orange, or perhaps a coconut.

To be fair, the quoted definition has a common theme. The various definitions are all positive things. But on the other hand, my example is just as good, because the various definitions are all delicious fruits!

aeromill  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

>So "utility" is both "happiness" and "something that's useful towards the end of happiness".

No. Utility is the usefulness in achieving the end. And the end is happiness. And achieving the end well is aggregating a lot of happiness. Therefore high utility is high happiness. For that reason philosophers equate utility with happiness. It's a definition specific to philosophy.

Hopefully that clears things up.

shiranaihito  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're still equating it with both the end and the means towards it. In other words, you're still not making sense.

aeromill  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No.

The Utility is the how well it accomplishes the end. It's a way of describing how good the means are. The end is happiness. I'm not saying that utility is the means. I'm saying that utility is how it's measured.

shiranaihito  ·  3440 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Here's what you originally said:

    utility, especially for utilitarians, is not usefulness, it's happiness. It's called utility because it's useful towards the end of happiness

But now you're saying.. something different that I can't be bothered to parse right now.

I give up.