I would like to preface this by saying that I spent about an hour and a half writing up a response to what you posted. Unfortunately, when I clicked the "reply" button, Hubski had timed out and I had lost everything I had written. As a result, I'm a little frustrated (it was really well written damnit) and when I'm upset, I get terse. So if any of my response sounds clinical or unempathetic, please do not take it that personally. It is a failing on my part. Needless to say, I learned a hard lesson this morning.

On top of that, it is not your right to have an educator. That phrase can sound a little B.S., but the basic concept comes down to this - there is a difference between "I'd like to know about this, can you tell me more?" and "I need you to explain this to me. If I don't get it, then it's not a thing."

Indeed. I'd like to make it clear that I never have been, nor will I ever be, under the assumption that people are obligated to interact with me (with the obvious caveat of navigating through necessary parts of day to day life), nor are they obligated to teach me anything. What I was addressing with minimum_wage (which if you're reading this, I apologize if you got the wrong impression) is that there is an important, inherent value to dialog and communication. Every conversation we have and every interaction we have influences people, for better or worse. Every moment can be a teaching moment, whether we realize it or not. The fact that you and I are talking now is a great example. Had he and I not thought differently from each other, this whole construction of the great wall of text wouldn't take place.

Gender Binary doesn't exist outside of the societal construct we are familiar with.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. In fact, I think the idea that some tribal societies can have as many as up to half a dozen genders absolutely compelling. It does bring up a lot of questions, at least in my mind, about gender identity in those societies. I wonder whether or not they have the same issues as we do in the Western World with people with Gender Identity Disorder. I would like to think, or at least hope, that people in those societies are more comfortable with who they are. At the same time, I also wonder if maybe those societies have all of those constructs because they have a higher frequency of Chromosomal Variations. You bring up the Kathoey, and I can't help but wonder if they exist because of a social nuance in Thai society or if because they're all expressing some genetic similarity and that Thai society bent itself to fit around them.

Wall of scientific text

You know, it's amazing how much of that I've actually picked up over the years through reading things here and there. I didn't realize how much I already knew about that kind of stuff until you laid it all out for me. That said though, you've created a great refresher and I think I'll dive in further. You know how these things go though, especially with Wikipedia. You start by reading one article and then the next thing you know, you have 20 tabs open in your browser.

Thank you for putting all of that together though. I'm sure it took a great deal of effort and I am genuinely appreciative of that.

Is feeling like the opposite gender of what you were born "natural"? Yes. It's just not super common.

I understand what you're saying here. I think it's important to make the distinction though that while it's naturally, it's arguably unhealthy. Now, don't take this the wrong way. I am NOT saying that people that are struggling with this are bad people or should feel bad with what they're going through. I am NOT saying that they are by default mentally ill or should feel like they should bear the burden of the stigma of mental illness. Furthermore, I don't think any mentally ill person, with whatever ailment, should feel like a bad person.

That being said, I do think that it is arguably unhealthy. Not because it's not common or natural or unnatural or even because it's different. I think it's unhealthy because it leads to a lot of people feeling hurt, depressed, isolated, confused and just brings on so much baggage. Those are all unhealthy side affects to which doctors and psychologists can point to Gender Identity Disorder as being the root cause. You obviously don't treat something if there's nothing wrong with it.

First I'll point out how much total bullshit there is to get onto hormones in the first place. like, I've been head on the road towards hormones for more than a year and a half, and only recently got onto step 1, which is not full hormones. It required hours of counselling sessions, and repeating my "story" over and over to various people until I got sick of minutiae and created a "Party line" that I used for everything to keep a consistent story. To get Gender reassignment surgery I will likely be on a wait list for over 2 years.

I want to start out by saying that I understand what you're going through must be very frustrating. I know that these things can be difficult and I really wish that you get the best care and the best results. You deserve it. So please don't take what I'm about to say next as a slight against you, as that's absolutely not the case. It's just my personal thoughts on the issue.

While I know the whole process (as far as what I've read and understand on the issue) can be very frustrating, I think that it's a good safeguard. People can get confused very easily sometimes and this is a good way to make sure that the people who do need the care get it, while protecting those who don't need it from making a potentially big mistake. Heaven forbid someone wakes up one day, maybe five or ten years later, and completely and woefully regret what they have done. It's a very scary thought.

If we go back to the Kathoey in Thailand, I remember reading or seeing something somewhere where a lot of them would take over the counter and/or pilfered female birth control pills during puberty to help them develop more feminine features. To me that's a very scary thought for a lot of reasons. Are they getting the medical supervision that they need? What about the psychological supervision? Puberty can be a very difficult time for anyone from any culture. Your body feels weird. Your thoughts are all jumbled. You're having a difficult time trying to navigate your transitioning role in society as more and more people see you as an adult. Doing something so drastic during that period easily compounds things. I think it's wonderful that Thailand is so supportive of these people and I'm sure they have a great support network for them. That said though, it does bring up a big safety and health issue. Safeguards are important.

David Reimer

Yeah. I remember that case back in a psychology class. I don't have much to say on it, other than it reminds me a lot of Phineas Gage, only because sometimes the most tragic of situations can lead to so much insight.

Labouchere Amendment

We did some very barbaric things in our near past. A lot of it isn't even justifiable as it's the result of men being callous and unempathetic. It makes me wonder what people 100 years from now will look back on today with horror. I feel somewhat comforted to say that today, at least in certain areas of science and life in general, we're trying harder to do right and while we might stumble here and there, our hearts are hopefully in the right place.

This isn't a "just because we can, doesn't mean we should" situation. this is a "we finally have a way for these people to stop hating themselves" situation, and a "wow, these people have been hiding in corners for centuries and just want to be treated like human beings" situation.

Oh, I agree completely. Transgender issues are not as easy as addressing something as a simple cut because as you well illustrated, there are a lot of nuances involved. We as a society owe it to each other to care for and look out for one another. Because of that, I believe that we owe people in your position as many options as possible, be they medical or otherwise, and to make absolute sure that those options are both safe and healthy both in the short as well as the long term. I think the more research that is done and the more we learn, the better. It will open up new avenues of treatment that will allow people and their doctors, to choose the most appropriate course of action.

Now, I do have to admit that I have personal reservations about gender reassignment surgery and I don't know whether or not it's wise to talk about the issue in depth for a few reasons. I'm afraid that expressing such concerns might paint me in an unfavorable light, making me look callous or uncaring and I do not mean to come across that way at all. I know it's something that you yourself are looking into so I understand that the subject might hit too close to home. To be completely honest, I don't really know how comfortable I am about talking about it, let alone how comfortable you are. If you want to though, we could start slow and see where things take us. If not though, it's cool with me. I can't tell you how much I appreciate what you've already done.

(I think that was all I meant to say the first time around. Hopefully I haven't left anything out.)