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comment by Wintermute
Wintermute  ·  3430 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: I do not believe you, NASA

Maybe I'm not clear on what "this" is. Is it the original tweet? NASA itself? Orion? SLS?

I'm not arguing that NASA exists solely for the benefit of mankind (does anything?). I would argue that most of the people working on Orion, SLS, and "going to Mars" in general, are doing it primarily because they want to put people on Mars. The fact that it has substantial military/surveillance use cases is incidental to the people actually doing the science and engineering.

I guess it comes down to perspective. From a political perspective, you're probably right. But from a NASA perspective, from the top on down it absolutely is about going to Mars.





kleinbl00  ·  3430 days ago  ·  link  ·  

From a political perspective, NASA is a beard for the NRO and the general militarization of space in general. That makes the "NASA perspective" not particularly relevant as they aren't driving the bus.

A press release about Orion and "going to mars" is akin to a press release about a hood ornament and plans to drive to Niagara Falls. Orion is a payload, nothing more. The "science and engineering" in that payload is now and has always been a useful way to daylight the classified stuff ULA and others need public money for.

Wintermute  ·  3430 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Obviously we're not going to come to any agreement on this subject, but I'm curious about one thing.

    NASA is a beard for the NRO and the general militarization of space in general.

Do you really mean "NASA" here, as opposed to say "the space program"? You usually chose your words carefully, so I'm thinking you did. Maybe I'm just hopelessly naive, but I would love to hear your opinion on how my work on integrating unmanned systems into the National Airspace System is actively contributing to the NRO.

kleinbl00  ·  3430 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I mean "NASA." "The space program" is geopolitical and teeny-weeny by any real standard. As I recall, the Mars 2020 rover is slated to cost $130 million. An F-35 costs three times that. Rosetta cost a billion euros. A KH-11 Block 4 costs ten billion dollars. The world watches with bated breath as that rover does its thing; I was one of two dozen people who gathered to watch the last KH-11 go up out of Vandenberg.

Note that I didn't say "ruse." Note that I didn't say "cover." I said "beard." NASA does a lot of cool shit and I love all of it. But it does what it does largely as a public, benevolent front for a private, militarized mission by the rest of the space industry. Do I think everyone that works at NASA (and remember - I've known a few) wake up every morning looking forward to a day of subterfuge? No.

But I don't think NASA happens without defense purposes driving all major allocations, either.

Besides which, integrating unmanned systems into NAS has a lot more to do with the CIA.

(ducks)