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comment by b_b
b_b  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: South Asian Sex Crimes

Unfortunately, no amount of law enforcement will stop this problem, because it's not a crime problem they're dealing with; it's a cultural problem. The West has done a great deal to affect cultural changes at home, as has been doing it for a century. The Mid-East and South Asia, lag so far behind that they seem anachronistic and backwards, uncivilized in many ways. I remember reading a few years back about riots in Jordan, because the King decreed that honor killings would be treated as murder in their court. Riots. The only thing that can change the culture is to mirror the Western model: civil disobedience and nonviolent protests. A lot of brave women were harmed in America for suffrage, but I think non of them regretted it. We can't impose our ideals on India, and police within India can't stop rape; all they can do is lock up rapists. That is an ineffective strategy, given that even if they doubled or tripled their arrests, they would still have the vast majority of rapes unreported and unpunished.





BilalATahrir  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This assumes that Western countries have no problem with sexual violence and misogyny, which is not the case. This is an international problem, I simply focused my approach on South Asia. However, many of the trends discussed are equally at play in the United States.

b_b  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No, it doesn't assume that there isn't a problem in Western countries. It assumes that the problem is orders of magnitude higher in countries where misogyny is ingrained in the culture. An honor killing in North America becomes national headlines, as was recently the case in the Toronto area. Rape happens everywhere, but the numbers for South Asian and Middle Eastern countries dwarf anything we can imagine here. According to an NPR piece, something like a third of Afghan marriages result from a rape, when the choice then becomes marry your rapist or die. They are not equally at play. That doesn't mean that each individual rape that happens in the West is any less violent than any individual rape elsewhere, but it's very suspect to compare the two at the population level.

BilalATahrir  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't believe so, we just have to be more abstract. Sexual violence intersects with different cultures in various violent ways, which is ultimately superficial in a market-driven world. I think that many people would find that many of the dismissive comments by Hindu nationalists on the subject echo the dismissive comments of American and British folks who don't take rape seriously either.

But ultimately, acting as though it's "orders of magnitude higher" in other countries always exists simultaneously to erasing the problem in Western states. The issue needs to be resolved internationally, with broad-based initiatives by multiple governments, because it is a problem in how socioeconomic trends occur on a global scale. It just shows up differently in different places.

b_b  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I completely agree that "[t]he issue needs to be resolved internationally, with broad-based initiatives by multiple governments," but it's just not an accurate comparison by the numbers to make a claim that there is any type of equivalency in violence toward women in all geographical areas. I work for a 28,000 employee, $4.5 billion revenue company that has a lesbian as the CEO, and no one gives a shit because she's an amazing executive. Whereas, the Saudi government announced recently that sometime in the next several years they're going to consider giving some civil rights to women at some point. The West has a strong history of violence toward women, but we've made progress.

BilalATahrir  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Civil rights have been uneven, yes. Upper-class women certainly have an easier time with this in the United States, particularly if they're white, and there are still struggles. I think it is important to appreciate progress where and when it does occur, while having the perspective to push internationally.

Sometimes, numbers don't tell the whole story, unfortunately. Market pressures affect women everywhere, for instance, in ways that aren't always studied or elaborated. But particularly with sexual assault, there is so much pressure to not report, from which numbers can be dependably taken, that we have to be a little looser about it.

b_b  ·  3865 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well I think we can agree that no matter what the numbers, we all need to recognize and respect that human and civil rights are not reserved for one group of people over another. Rule of law (in which all are treated equal under the same set of laws) is the most important Western ideal, in my opinion. To me, that doesn't mean that laws are what civilize us, but rather that we acknowledge and respect that everyone has a right to exist free from violence, sexual violence, of course, being one of the worst forms.