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user-inactivated  ·  3334 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Chernobyl and Other Places Where Animals Thrive Without People

    Why? What point does it serve?

Because nature brings us beauty and inspiration. It gives us the opportunity to find insights, both scientific and philisophical. It gives us a heritage that we can pass on, a sense of purpose to encourage us to grow and do right. All of those things, they are priceless. Priceless

    Nobody will just get up one day, no nation will just "decide" to do this. It will happen due to necessity. We will find ourselves in a world where nature has failed, has collapsed, or has begun to screw us over, and we will have to "take the wheel".

    The world isn't stable, the environment isn't stable, less so now that we are around. Global warming, ice ages, supervolcanic eruptions, meteors. Nature/natural events are primed and armed to wipe us, and most species with us, off the face of the planet.

    We take control, or we die.

No. You keep on talking in terms of extremes. It's either this or that. Not only am I saying that going to those extremes is unessecary, cause it is, but it's risky. If we fuck up, we're done.

We can take prevantative measures, to protect us from droughts, asteroids, quakes, famines, and whatever else nature throws at us. We can protect ourselves, we can find ways to adapt and recover, and we can and will continue to thrive. We can do all of that without having to take the reigns. We can often find that it's easier to get better results just by doing less.

    We will never be a mature species, we will always face issues, and never be satisfied, it's human nature.

Right. I agree. There's always more to discover. More to develop. More to embrace. Ideally, we can continue to grow by leaps and bounds as the centuries continue to tick off. Right now though, we still act like children. Petulant, short sighted children. We have a long way to go.

    Could we stop it? Look at twitch plays pokemon for a prime example of this. Look at the reddit "hivemind", look at how so many human-systems work. It's not that simple.

    How do "we" just suddenly change course, how do you just suddenly shift an entire system so drastically in a short time? You can't. Selfishness, apathy, cowardice, and negligence are all things humans do, and things we have to learn to deal with, not things we can simply decide away with. Problems to be fixed, not problems that we can decide to no longer cause.

Come on now. Are you going to ignore your previous post? The one where you said we're so much better than we were just 2000 years ago, during biblical times? These things take time. You know it, I know it. Once again though, it's not going to happen if we all just shrug our shoulders and say "Welp. I guess that's just the way it is." We have to want it. To work for it. Struggle for it. In our desire and our struggle to better ourselves, not only will we find greater value in the ways we have grown, but we'll also have developed the behavior and mindset that fosters healthier and more productive social behavior.

    Expecting humanity to act proactively on things isn't honest. That's not how society has ever worked.

Yet. We can change. In order to do so though, we have to see the value in it and to want that change. We do it all the time. Remember your example about slavery? Huh? Yeah? Right? That's us seeing value in changing our behaviors.

    This may be true, but the purpose of biodiversity is to prevent diseases and genetic single-ness that causes all sorts of issues. By ensuring sufficient genetic variation between a crop, you create the diversity needed to ensure safety of the crop, and of those who eat those crops.

Sure. I agree. That doesn't mean that biodiversity is without value.

    This does not indicate that such a system is the better system, especially considering those multiple mass extinction events. I'd prefer change from that particular status-quo, and mankind is the only species with the power to drive that change.

Once again, we don't have to take the reigns to keep this from happening. All we have to do is act appropriately when and where need be.

    And these are the mechanisms that drive progress, I agree. While I don't entirely agree that the feelings of a fish should really matter very much, this is a massive indication of why exactly mankind is so unique, and why our society constantly seems better than the ones a generation ago. The constant discussion, the constant refreshing of new ideas. These have to happen for progress to be made, and they need to happen on a scale that strikes the majority of 300 million people to drive appropriate change in only one nation.

    The scale of these conversations, the impact they have to have, is massive, and they will have that impact in time, when most people are having that discussion, when the thing effects most. Until then, we can't expect change to appear, we can't expect perfection to come from every moment of every person's life. We have to give it time. A hundred years from now may seem a utopia, but I guarantee they will tell you a hundred absurd problems you may react against in a negative way, just like a republican senator clutching onto a snowball..

Oh. I agree. One hundred percent. Yet once again, you contradict yourself.

    Could we stop it? Look at twitch plays pokemon for a prime example of this. Look at the reddit "hivemind", look at how so many human-systems work. It's not that simple.

    How do "we" just suddenly change course, how do you just suddenly shift an entire system so drastically in a short time? You can't. Selfishness, apathy, cowardice, and negligence are all things humans do, and things we have to learn to deal with, not things we can simply decide away with. Problems to be fixed, not problems that we can decide to no longer cause.

That was you just a few lines ago. I reiterate. By embracing the virtues of conservation and stewardship, we are developing attributes and behaviors needed to advance our society. It's like a sapling though. Those behaviors have to start out on a small scale and grow and develop over time before it can be applied on a grander scale.