comment by thenewgreen

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thenewgreen · 4605 days ago · link · · parent · post: The Truth About Factory Farming and Beef Slaughterhouses - YouTube

My grandparents lived in WWII Germany. Having meat was a luxury as was milk, bread and butter. My grandfather emigrated to the US when he was a very young man. I always wondered when I was a kid why he was always so adamant about offering food to his guests, he would ask "are you sure you won't have more", all the time. You have to say "no thank you" to him many times when you visit because he insists upon feeding you. As I got older and the recognition of what he had been through materialized, I realized that food meant life to him in a way that it didn't to me. It's amazing how spoiled I am, how lucky. meat, butter, cheese, these things are not "God given rights", we are indeed very fortunate to have them.

That said, their is a "true cost" to the production of animal products and it should absolutely be reflected in their costs. I don't think we are going to be able to shield ourselves from this "true reflective costs" as the middle classes in China and India begin to acquire an increased desire for these things. The costs will rise, our tastes will have to adjust or our production will have to increase. It should be an interesting evolution from an ethical standpoint.

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b_b · 4605 days ago · link ·

I can't imagine living through a war like that. There is an amazing movie by Werner Herzog called Little Dieter Needs to Fly that chronicles the life a German born, American pilot who was shot down in Vietnam and then endured a harrowing escape from a VC prison camp (later, Herzog also made Rescue Dawn, which is a dramatization of just the prison break part). The main character (its a documentary, but I'll say character for lack of a better word), Dieter Dengler, was about 4 or 5 when WWII ended. In it, he recalls how in the final days of the war, and immediately after people were so destitute that they would go to extremes like boiling their wall paper, because the glue contained a lot of starch (Herzog himself was born in Germany during the war, so its a personal film to him, I think).

Sacrifice isn't something a lot of us truly know about. I admittedly don't, and I certainly hope that I don't ever have to endure anything like that. But, I think if you are forced to, and survive it, then it must make you believe that you are strong enough to handle anything. I wonder what the abject gluttony of this country looks like to someone who has endured a war, or a famine, or something similar. Is is viewed with awe? Disgust? Or maybe something of a combination?

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thenewgreen · 4605 days ago · link ·

I can't imagine it either. I've never asked them what they think of the abject gluttony, I'm not sure they would agree with the phrasing of the question. My grandmother volunteers much of her time at a local food bank and my grandfather owns several acres of land that he converted to what he calls a "Victory Garden". All of the produce is donated to the food bank. It's his way of helping those in need and keeping others aware of the fact that we are at war.

I do know they are incredibly grateful for the opportunities and the abundance the United States has provided. I also know that they get very shaken up when they hear our leaders and citizenry espouse phrases like, "axis of Evil" and if you're not with us you're against us. -to them this sort of rhetoric sounds all too familiar.

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b_b · 4605 days ago · link ·

Ah, thenewgreen, you seem to have a polite way of bringing my word usage back down to Earth (its happened a couple times, and I can't say I usually disagree with you on second read). Abject gluttony might be the wrong phrase, but do I think its undeniable that we, as a people, have a collective eating disorder (combined with a massively incorrect allocation of resources in our food production). According to the CDC's website: "Obesity now affects 17% of all children and adolescents in the United States - triple the rate from just one generation ago."

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thenewgreen · 4605 days ago · link ·

b_b, you misunderstand me. I'm not sure that "abject gluttony" is the wrong word. I'm just pretty sure my grandparents wouldn't use that terminology. I don't find fault in it myself.

My grandparents would be more likely to fault a socioeconomic scenario where food desserts and a flawed welfare system are the culprit. -I'm guessing here, but I'll see them at Christmas and I'll be sure to ask.

There is no doubt that we have an obesity problem though. I applaud that the White House is attempting to tackle this issue and bring it in to the light. It's a serious problem and an expensive one from a healthcare perspective.

But no need to apologize for the word usage, I might have used even harsher adjectives :)

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b_b · 4605 days ago · link ·

Yeah and Michelle Obama was even criticized by the right wing media for trying raise awareness (for example, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02...), even though, as you point out, healthy people cost less. Seems like something both sides could agree on. I guess anything's possible when you lack a conscience :)