Well yes, it's a discussion about the problems and benefits of genetic engineering. An entirely different topic within the US are farming laws, which you have written, and I agree, an even bigger monster than genetic engineering cannot and should not solve. Coupled with that are global trade laws, water rights, and run-off regulations. You've also got the straight: "How, as a farmer, should you plow, sow, and grow a patch of land?" All of which must be solved first, and independent of figuring out how to get the most, year after year, out of that patch of land.
And that's not even getting to what you do with the crop once it's been harvested.
My point isn't to sympathize with big-ag, it's to defend technology that still holds a lot of promise. Hell, Golden Rice isn't even controlled by a for-profit nowadays.
- We're dealing with more than a "PR nightmare" we're dealing with selfish and impure actions by large corporations that view the subjects of their benevolence with apathy at best and ill will at worst.
You're also dealing with thousands upon thousands of independent researchers at hundreds of universities across the world. You might as well say all medical research is bunk because pharmaceutical companies profit off the pill in the end. I'm not exactly sure what the anti-vax reference is for, though. Jenny McCarthy's sole scientific reference was retracted long ago and the ill will of the CIA has little to do with the medical merit of vaccines.
- So whether or not "rice gruel" is a balanced part of a basic 3rd world breakfast, "rice gruel and a little sweet potato" solves the problem more handily than "Golden Rice Gruel, a Syngenta Product, All Rights Reserved, Void Where Prohibited."
That is also a valid solution. But here's a word from a researcher on the matter:
- Everybody in the field agrees that the ideal solution is for people to diversify their diet and to simply eat well. However that’s exactly the crux of the matter: People are simply too poor and in some cases they do not know enough about nutrition, either. This means the question is a bit akin to the purported suggestion by Marie Antoinette to “let them eat cake” – if they could they’d be probably more than happy to do so. While it is a horrible thing that millions and millions of people still live in poverty, there’s no denying that this situation will only be solved slowly over the coming 1-2 decades (or at least I very much hope it will be solved). This leaves those who cannot afford a sufficiently diverse diet out in the cold for the time being. Clearly, they deserve our attention and the help society can give.
There's also a comment with regards to hammer nail:
- This means what can be an optimal mix of the various interventions in one country may not be the best use of resources in another. However, this makes it the more important to have as many different tools available as possible, so decision-makers in each country can use the strengths of one intervention in one setting to complement the strengths of another intervention in another.
Look, I also think it's dumb as fuck that modern Western civilization has basically thrown out all agricultural history in the name of bushels. And yeah, BP funds biofuel research. And, yeah, Monsanto representatives attend synbio conferences. But to counter your idiom with another, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".
So this has grown into a massive scope involving all sorts of subjects that were not initially at issue. The discussion went like this:
Q) Where are you with GMO labeling?
A) I'm for it for all the wrong reasons.
Q) But GMO will save the world someday.
A) GMO purports to save the world but there are deep issues with implementation and intent that, thus far, have prevented it from saving the world, despite a ten year head start.
Q) But there are clearly benefits to genetic engineering.
A) That does not change the fact that those benefits have yet to be realized, a telling failing.
So here we are, back again: your comment is basically a repeat of "But there are clearly benefits to genetic engineering."
Right. No contest. Not my beef, never was. My strongest criticism, so far, was "From an individual health and nutrition standpoint I don't feel that non-GMO offers much advantage over GMO; quite the contrary in certain circumstances. " Take out the double negatives and you actually see support for GMO.
So from my perspective, the discussion hasn't changed: GMO labeling is useful because the GMO industry is, at best, misguided. Nothing said about the science of GMO - this is ALL ABOUT the politics of GMO. Which is where this statement comes from:
- prior to Jenny mcCarthy and the CIA, vaccines were A-OK and they actively involve injecting pathogens into your bloodstream.
You wondered what that was about. My point is that Jenny McCarthy muddled the discussion on vaccines in the developed world by giving Andrew Wakefield a platform and now all these rich white women are spreading the measles. My point is that the CIA muddled the discussion on vaccines by using vaccination as a front to hunt for Bin Laden and now the Taliban is executing WHO workers attempting to wipe out polio in Afghanistan.
I started this discussion with a statement about politics. You and cgod attempted to inject science into it, and I have maintained (successfully, in my opinion) that the political situation overshadows the scientific situation. I have absolutely no dog in the race as far as the science; my argument is now, has been and shall be that the political motivations and ramifications of GMO have far more to do with profit than they do with humanitarian efforts.
I wholeheartedly agree that the politics of GMO are a mess. I don't think the incentives are going the right direction for mankind to realize the full benefits of this technology. If big agri business was smart they would be developing things like strawberry cantaloupe rather than pesticide resistant wheat, just to gain public acepptance of GMO products.
- So this has grown into a massive scope involving all sorts of subjects that were not initially at issue.
Tangents are my weak point. >_<
I just take a bit of annoyance to the claim that GMO research is all profiteering when the aforementioned Syngenta doesn't stand to make a dollar anyways.
And therein lies the problem: I was arguing against GMO advocacy and you saw me arguing against GMO research despite the fact that I semi-explicitly argued for it.
Syngenta is not explicitly profiting from sales of Golden Rice, true. I'm not sure you can argue they're doing it for purely altruistic reasons. they're getting good PR out of it. Which, when you're talking about a company that makes half its money selling pesticides to the developing world, ain't nuthin'.