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comment by mk
mk  ·  4111 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Enlightenment’s ‘Race’ Problem, and Ours

Thank you for that.

It might be that I am naive because I have never been close to the history of a nation threatened. However, even if nationalism was at times a positive force in the past, wasn't it as many times a negative one? Wasn't it nationalism that also fueled the division of Poland by foreign armies? Nationalism has supported both offense and defense.

You were born Polish, I was born American. What nationalism we have divides our interests. Should you favor another Pole over me? And yet, three of my grandparents were Polish, should you favor me over someone born in Mexico? These are not things that we earned. These are conditions that we were born into. It might sound cliché, but in this day I think it more pertinent that we consider our shared human condition, and look at place of birth as a matter of chance that says nothing about our quality or depth.

I think it is good to have respect for what others accomplished, but to forego pride.





wiffleaxe  ·  4110 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Should you favor another Pole over me? And yet, three of my grandparents were Polish, should you favor me over someone born in Mexico? These are not things that we earned. These are conditions that we were born into.

These are important questions. I have, over the past few years, been directly involved in hiring processes, twice having sole judgment on candidates to interview and hire. On three occasions, there were candidates who were either from Poland or of Polish descent. In the places I worked, hiring decisions were not made solely on one's qualifications: Because both offices were small, the ability of each candidate to get along with the office - and particularly how well his/her character meshed with that of their direct supervisor - were just as important.

The candidates' Polishness was one factor that may have influenced our compatibility as coworkers. I prefer to be friends with introverts and intellectual/bookish types. Most of my friends are left-leaning, and I would - realistically - get along better in a work environment with someone who shared my ideologies. Similarly, if I were friends with, or worked with, someone with whom I could speak in my native language, who understood my food tastes and figures of speech, then they would, all else equal, have an advantage over identical candidates who didn't. But those are just some factors I would consider in our compatibility as friends and coworkers.

(For the record, none of them ended up getting the positions.)

By nature, humans tend to enjoy the company of those similar to them, and similar nationalities make two people, in aggregate, more likely to share certain similarities. However, nationality or background is just one of many traits that I may share with people, and is not the most important one.

    in this day I think it more pertinent that we consider our shared human condition, and look at place of birth as a matter of chance that says nothing about our quality or depth.

I completely agree, and I'm not arguing that Polish people are of higher quality than non-Poles. For me, pride in my heritage does not imply any sense of superiority. I do, however, recognize the struggles my ancestors had to overcome and I wish to pass along the language and culture that they fought for. I feel a connection to others who share this history with me. I would never use that feeling as a basis for judging individual people on their quality or depth. Friendship, yes. But not their value as a human.

    Wasn't it nationalism that also fueled the division of Poland by foreign armies? Nationalism has supported both offense and defense.

This seems to come down to the rights of cultures for self-determination. German and Soviet invasions, for example, explicitly aimed to deny Poles their language and culture and (in the short term, supplement, and in the long term) replace it with their own. I support - at least in theory - secessionist and autonomist movements where the group in question is being denied their right to express their culture. I do not support efforts to eradicate those.