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comment by BANE
BANE  ·  4095 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Do physicists believe in God?

I can have all the faith in the world that the sun revolves around the earth however the evidence would prove me wrong. Does that seem fair we hold the two to the same standard?





cc  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I can have all the faith in the world that the sun revolves around the earth however the evidence would prove me wrong.

Is there really evidence? Or is it just blind faith in what your elementary school teacher once told you? ;)

What about the whole concept of relativity and frame of reference? Should your driver's license be revoked if the police officer can provide evidence that your car was traveling 108,000 km/h above the speed limit? Because that's the speed it was traveling relative to the sun.

Sure, if you're approximating planetary orbits, this is much easier to work with than this. But neither it technically wrong. Can you disprove that the sun "rises" each morning? No, because it's just a matter for frame of reference.

theZproject  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You've compared a heliocentric orbital diagram and a geocentric orbital diagram and proclaimed neither of them to be "technically wrong". This is absurd, the geocentric view of the solar system is absolutely wrong and is not even a useful approximation. It was, at one time, a useful and somewhat convincing approximation but the real answer is much simpler, far more accurate, and easier to work with. There is overwhelming evidence that this is the case. If we were having this discussion before the launch of the first interplanetary exploration missions there would STILL be overwhelming and conclusive evidence but in the age of space exploration it is incontrovertible.

There's no blind faith required here, there is real evidence.

cc  ·  4093 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wasn't really clear.

I am not talking about orbits or the model of the solar system. I'm talking purely about changing the frame of reference.

If you want to plot the movement of planets, you set the frame of reference at the sun. That way, the orbits are nice and elliptical. If you plot the movement of the moon, it will look something like this, though. To get a nice ellipse, you have to set the frame of reference at the earth.

So now you have the earth at point (0,0,0) and you have the moon revolving around it in an elliptical orbit. What happens if you plot the sun?

Normally, people consider the ground not to move, and use it as a frame of reference. So if you're just standing, you're not moving. If you're driving 30 miles per hour, you're moving at that rate relative to the earth's surface, right? So, if the ground is not moving but the sun moves from one side to the other, then at this frame of reference the sun is moving around the earth.

So to be clear: I'm not making an argument against the model where the earth orbits around the sun - everything behaves the same. The only thing that changes is the frame of reference.

BANE  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There's tons of evidence, no blind faith requires, your argument had no grounds and no blind faith required, unlike belief in god ;). Also, we use speed as a reference, true its really much faster relative to the sun but that i not the scale I, nor any rational human being uses.

I cant disprove anything, it's impossible, can you disprove that you're a serial killing rapist, no.

cc  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sorry, I can't figure out what you're trying to say... you're not forming coherent sentences.

Then again, my post was made under influence of alcohol, so I guess that's ok.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4095 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm just playing devil's advocate here now, but how do you know that in a spiritual sense of our universe in which the sun and earth revolve around something entirely different? I know I'm being ridiculous. But the point of what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't ever discredit the possibility for anything, even if there's no evidence for it.

BANE  ·  4095 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yes we shouldn't discredit the possibility for anything, even if there's no evidence for it, however we should hold facts and evidence to a higher standard the faith.

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

But there's faith in facts! Faith that those facts will never change. Who knows that they won't?

theZproject  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Don't discredit the possibility that the earth and sun revolve around something else, because they do. Our solar system orbits the super massive black hole in the center of our galaxy. There's just nothing spiritual going on there. ;)

BLOB_CASTLE  ·  4094 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Haha, I knew that! It was the first thing I could think of off the top of my head!