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comment by TalibAladine
TalibAladine  ·  4346 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Experiment: What's YOUR most controversial opinion, Hubski?

Without getting too deep into Christian Dogma, Catholicism maintains that God expressly gave free will to humans so man is left to freely choose the right path, and this in turn makes God's creation of humans valid, as opposed to a selfish act of vanity (Making creatures that have to and can only love and worship you).

Adam and Eve, however, is an allegory about the importance of obedience. The devil represents temptation, obviously, and the point of the story is really - "Listen to your parents (elders, superiors), or bad shit will happen." Parents, elders, superiors, and in this case, God, create guidelines so you don't accidentally kill yourself and learn to function well within the society you want to exist in. The difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is what those guidelines are meant for.

In the Old Testament, it was quite literal, a set of rules that helped you not to die in the society and times it was written in. It is widely accepted among religious scholars that most of the Old Testament is not expressly the "word" of God, but rather the intentions of a loving, fatherly Creator working through the interpretations of the religious leaders of the time. I.E., God wants you to be happy and healthy, and I, as Abraham, have learned some things that will keep you this way - don't ingest certain types of food, don't kill other people, and don't lie with other men to keep our numbers up and people stop enslaving us.

In the New Testament, the guidelines are about emotional and social well-being. The allegories start to be about sharing, caring, and loving the rest of humanity as much as possible. It's more of a "one-size fits all" mentality meant to promote understanding, self-sacrifice, and acceptance of others.

Adam and Eve is the first allegory in the bible because it's the first thing we learn as humans - to trust and obey the judgment and wisdom of those responsible for our care.





Rank_Penguin  ·  4346 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Wait, I have somewhat of a problem with this. I was raised Catholic and we were always taught that original sin originated from Adam and Eve, and that's why we were baptised; to cleanse ourselves of that sin. So if it's an allegory, how can the Church maintain the idea that we actually have original sin if the Adam and Eve story was simply something used to teach a lesson?

TalibAladine  ·  4345 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yay for reductionism. Adam and Eve being an allegory for obedience has nothing to do with its ability to be used as a foundation for the theological doctrine of original sin. It's a bit like saying that a car can't be used to carry birthday balloons because it is used to carry people the rest of the time. It has, magically, or rather like many other things in the universe, the ability to serve many purposes at once. I do however, tend to forsake the supernatural aspects of religion in these discussions. It's very easy to walk into a religious debate and go "You know you guys aren't really drinking the blood of a 2000 year old religious icon right?" and completely sideline any sort of real anthropological dissection of religious texts.

Rank_Penguin  ·  4345 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yay for assumptions. I was genuinely curious, I wasn't trying to play a smug holier than thou atheist. I was curious as to how say a Catholic priest or official may answer this question; I wasn't trying to bring up a point for the sake of feeling superior in my beliefs. Sorry, I suppose.

TalibAladine  ·  4345 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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TalibAladine  ·  4345 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm not really sure. It really depends on the priest or official you're asking. Their abilities to reason, and the depth with which they have chosen to study or interpret any given text or theological doctrine varies just as much as anything I suppose. Sorry for the assumption, it is the internet, and I know how godless all you heathens are. (I'm an atheist though, not that it matters. Tone is hard in text.)