The same is true for the books the Puppies are attacking! Go look at the Hugo winners and nominees from the last few years. Time travel, planet terraforming, alien politics, it's all there. None of them on there are solely about pushing gender politics or racial issues. They are, however, starting to include those views in a discussion about what the future looks like. That is what the Puppies are reacting to. That's not really up to you to decide. If you don't like sci-fi written a certain way, don't read it. If others do, and if they give awards based on what they like, so what? And again, if the Puppies don't like the Hugo winners, they can start their own awards. There are other awards in science fiction, like the Nebula. But they won't, because It's not about a fair, just award system. It's about other people enjoying something they don't like, and trying to take that away from them. Right, and I'm disagreeing with you, strongly. It's not a fair point. It's an angry point based on a selfish, intolerant worldview. I don't think good sci-fi has ever been grounded in politics. It's always been grounded in ideas, and the politics come from those ideas.
The very best sci-fi doesn't convey a message so much as pose a question.
All I'm saying is, the Sad Puppies bring up a fair point that warrants consideration rather than dismissal.
I'll hardly judge books I haven't read. The Sad Puppies aren't in the right; however, they are bringing up a more general issue about what constitutes good sci-fi. It's not their actual positions that are important, its the more generalized version of them., that being the aceptance of political aims in SF. Wanting books I like to be recognized for their achievements is totally reasonable, would you agree? Then why can't the Puppies do the same? Filter out the selfishness and intolerance and it's something that warrants discussion.The same is true for the books the Puppies are attacking! Go look at the Hugo winners and nominees from the last few years. Time travel, planet terraforming, alien politics, it's all there. None of them on there are solely about pushing gender politics or racial issues. They are, however, starting to include those views in a discussion about what the future looks like. That is what the Puppies are reacting to.
That's not really up to you to decide.
Right, and I'm disagreeing with you, strongly. It's not a fair point. It's an angry point based on a selfish, intolerant worldview.
You aren't addressing anything I'm saying. I'm going to try one last time for a real conversation here then give up. 1) If the puppies want good books to get awards, why not start their own award? The Hugos have every right to award the books they like, the same way you are saying the Puppies deserve. The Hugos aren't telling the Puppies what to do. The Puppies are telling the Hugos what to do. That's the issue with the Puppies, only one group is seeking to control the other. 2) You say Puppies are upset about sci-fi that is "an elaborate setup for the message, instead of being the consequences of its setting.". Please provide actual examples of that in recent Hugo winners.
You've dodged those points every reply, including that one. While I doubt we will convince eachother away from our respective corners online, I would encourage you to actually read the books you're disparaging. The Hugo have nominated some really wonderful books. Before you validate the toxic campaign the Puppies are running, you might want to give those books a chance.