a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  3208 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Tsipras folds, Greek state assets go into privatization fund

What happened? I thought the people voted to stop this bullshit.





mnahmnah  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Noam Chomsky explained that the bottom 70% of the US population has no political control, despite marches, protests and/or votes. Influence increases as income rises, with the final biggest influence going to the top 1% of income earners. This state of political powerlessness for most of the population is called plutocracy.

Greek people clearly thought they were in a democracy, when really they (and I would imagine most of the Eurozone) live and operate in functional plutocracy.

Chomsky was quoted somewhere on Hubski recently...who's the wizard who remembers, and can give us a link?!

deepflows  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This? Glad there's someone else here who knows Chomsky (and how he's been talking about this sort of thing for decades).

mnahmnah  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

deepflows , it was you who made the comment! Thanks for finding the link.

Yes, Chomsky is a smart man; interesting how the best linguists are often also scientists and social justice activists. This sentence could be true any way you write it: the best social justice activists are also scientists and linguists, the best scientists are also linguists and social justice activists. Seems like a whole brain thing.

'best' in this case is defined as: most useful at focusing on the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health and well-being of individuals and society.

Thinkers like Chomsky always end up at the understanding that some kind of anarcho-syndicalism is required to straighten out the problems with top-heavy power structures, such as politics:

    [anarcho-syndicalism] is a conception of a very organized society, but organized from below by direct participation at every level, with as little control and domination as is feasible, maybe none.
deepflows  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What I like about anarcho-syndicalism compared to straigt anarchy is this part:

    as little control and domination as is feasible

Because I firmly believe that you have to have some degree of control. Someone has to control those who would otherwise drive when drunk, kill for fun and rape for pleasure. Someone has to have the power to deal with people who would harm themselves or others because of mental illness.

Again, with Chomsky:

    “Anarchism is… a tendency that is suspicious and skeptical of domination, authority, and hierarchy… It asks whether those systems are justified. It assumes that the burden of proof for anyone in a position of power and authority lies on them… If they can’t justify that authority and power and control, which is the usual case, then the authority ought to be dismantled and replaced by something more free and just.”
prostheticfourhead  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's not the first time a referendum in the EU hasn't meant anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2008_%28Ireland%29

deepflows  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Referendums and to some degree voting in general only exists because they can lend legitimacy to policy decisions. And if they don't? Time for "realpolitik". Financial realities, you see.

And it's not just the EU

The way I read the whole ting, Tsirpas and Varoufakis knew that the EU had them by the balls. It was either "accept being colonialized" or "crash". But they couldn't accept the conditions since they got voted into office on a promise of putting an end to the exploitation of the Greek people. They were hoping that the Greek would be scared enought to vote "Yes" to the EU plans. That way, they could have accepted the terms and justified it with "the people have spoken". But the Greeks said "Oxi". A day later, Varoufakis resigns. He knew what was comming.

prostheticfourhead  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Good point about the timing of Varoufakis' resignation.

>they couldn't accept the conditions since they got voted into office on a promise of putting an end to the exploitation of the Greek people

I really wonder what they were thinking back in Dec/Jan. They campaigned on ending austerity, the people voted "No", months later supporting their campaign promises, and when push came to shove they folded immediately. What were they hoping would happen or what were they hoping to accomplish?

I can't see how this won't end the government. The next election in Greece is going to be...interesting.

deepflows  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Actually, I suspect the next days will be interesting. The Greek have been known to express their dissatisfaction quite vividly in the past.