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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  3818 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: A Case against the existence of Free Will

First, I have to (pun intended) recognize your time and intellectual effort in making your case. I don't have much time at the moment, so I will be brief. If you feel I have slighted some particular point which you would like me to address -- please tell me! I will do my best to address it.

I understand the assumption that free will is an prerequisite to morality. I don't think it is, but I believe I understand the perspective. I have just posted a new essay, at Stacker's unwitting behest, which shows how my perspective plays out in the moral realm. You may not agree with my position, but it should at least lay out the map of my position on morality in more detail.

You say at one point:

"When I act or don’t act in a certain way I cannot do differently than I do, but when it goes well or badly I can adjust my morality so that in the future I act differently. I can place myself in situations where I could not act differently than I did and so act morally."

I do not disagree with this statement as I believe you intended it. I only disagree with the idea that free will exists as an uncaused causal event that is the source of your moral correction. As conscious beings, everything we experience has the potential to contribute to our future decisions. Thus, to use a noxious but useful metaphor, our software can get better over time. We differ, I think, in that you believe the essence of "you" is a super-physical (if not super-natural) decision making entity -- whereas I believe that what separates "me" from the average mechanical process in the rest of nature is consciousness. It is consciousness that makes the construction of the complex, but wholly physical, algorithms of decision-making possible.





Saouka  ·  3818 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    We differ, I think, in that you believe the essence of "you" is a super-physical (if not super-natural) decision making entity

I don't think I've suggested any noumenal/supernatural/dualist self here. What I've claimed is that our decisions come from our conscious awareness of ourselves and a moral attitude to improve how we act in the future. In that sense free will is equivalent to being morally responsible, you couldn't be acting freely and not be responsible for what actions you take. So in that sense I disagree that one is a pre-requisite.

    It is consciousness that makes the construction of the complex, but wholly physical, algorithms of decision-making possible.

My view is completely in line with this.

My issue with the first essay was that you seemed to be looking for a 'deeper' free will, not finding one, and then throwing out the entire concept. I don't think you can avoid morality if you look at free will just because that the primary use of free will in language. Aside from Philosophy, free will is "Were they morally responsible for that action?" - look at legal battles of manslaughter and murder, intent and diminished responsibility.

I'll go have a look at the morality one, thanks for the reply! I always enjoy it when someone posts a big topic like this, I feel like I should write something when I get some spare time and let someone else lay into it for a change.

user-inactivated  ·  3813 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Now I am even less sure we have a consequencial disagreement on this issue. Thanks Saouka.