I think that if you wanted to steer that conversation towards civil, it could easily have been steered towards civil. I think the only reason we're here is because you decided you were going to shut down the conversation by bombast, only to discover that when it comes to bombast, there's always someone more bombastic than you. At least, that's what I intended you to learn. Let's be perfectly clear: you employed the exact same rhetorical devices I did, only you employed them poorly. You're not here because I was rude, you're here because I used your methods with more skill and passion than you did. You're not here because you think this should be some ivory tower of civility, we're here because you decided to splash the pond and are annoyed that someone else cannonballed you. You want to have a civil conversation? Steer things back towards civil conversation. It's not that difficult. If you wanted to have a civil discussion with me, you totally could have had one and you know it. You don't want a civil conversation, though. You want a referee to step in and say I crossed the line. The line is where you paint it. You want me on the other side of that line, make an effort to put me there yourself. As it is, you start throwing around inflammatory statements and I will trump you 10 times out of 10. I've had passionate, intellectual, civil discussions with plenty of people on here - but I'm also really good at shouting down shouters. Your attempt at a "civil discussion" was to counter an Elizabeth Warren quote with a diatribe from the Von Mises Institute. That's like walking into a discussion about Sabra and Shatila with an Ariel Sharon opinion piece. Short of quoting directly from Atlas Shrugged, there isn't much less "civil" you could have done. And I made you answer for it. And will continue to do so, without apology, without remorse, without hiding aggression behind soft, dulcet language. And I would expect anyone who stands behind what they say to do the same to me... not go "whoa, someone brought it back to me, I better go hide under the covers and cry for help."