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wasoxygen  ·  2801 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Planning the Purge: GOP life after Trump

Thanks for sharing so many ideas! I feel like I am in the same boat, I have a hard time coming up with concrete evidence, because these subjects are so complex.

I don't think we have any hope of drawing a conclusion if I try to address all the different subjects you raised. And I completely agree that it's not fair for me to pick out one or two examples and use them to make a broad argument. By the same token, when you disagree that "the free market will set everything straight in the long run" you are arguing against a farfetched idea that I haven't expressed.

You mentioned OSHA as an example of proper regulation that protects us. I don't know much about OSHA and haven't interacted with the agency, so the first question that comes into my head is a very simpleminded one: "Is OSHA effective in its mission to assure safe and healthful working conditions for working men and women?"

Do you agree with me that it could be a worthwhile subject to learn about, as long as we are careful not to make broad conclusions about other organizations?

To try and answer the first question, I ask another simpleminded question: "Is there evidence that OSHA has a positive effect on workplace safety?" It seems clear to me that, if OSHA is effective, we should be able to see some results. If we don't see such evidence, we shouldn't conclude that OSHA is worthless, but we should entertain some doubt about whether it is a good example of regulation that protects us. (That's why my claim was that "the effectiveness of OSHA is at least questionable," not that "no regulatory body is worthwhile.")

In my view, the clearest evidence of effectiveness would be reduced rates of injury and death in the workplace. Injuries are harder to classify and recording is inconsistent, but the records on fatal incidents are more complete.

The chart shows that workplace safety, as measured by the rate of fatalities, is indeed improving. But I don't see any difference in the rate of improvement before or after OSHA was created. I don't trust the source of the chart, but I was able to confirm the numbers on another site, which also mentions other contributing factors, both governmental and otherwise.

Do you agree that the effectiveness of OSHA is at least questionable, based on this evidence? If I asked you to predict what the chart would show before you saw it, what might you have said?

    I really feel that the majority of businesses out there don't give two shits about the public good

I think you are right, at a high level, businesses care primarily about profit. And on that same high level, as customers we don't give two shits about the profits of businesses.

Yet we give businesses the money that contributes their profits every time we interact with them. Why do we keep giving them money, if we don't care about their profits?

Obviously we are obligated to give them money if we want to continue the relationship of exchange by which both sides benefit. And the business has to consider the welfare of the customer as well. How long will you continue to buy from ExxonMobil after you learn that they are putting lead in the unleaded? Will you go back to a restaurant after a case of food poisoning?

The business interest in the public good is merely instrumental toward making more profit, but it is to some extent effective. Hurting a customer can lead to expensive lawsuits. Bad service can affect ratings, reducing market share.

These are natural incentives that are compatible with human nature. The results aren't perfect, but "customer service" is something every successful business has to consider.

If you are so cynical (as you should be) to doubt that a business cares about treating you well when the business stands to gain from every interaction, why are you not equally cynical about the motivation for a public safety inspector, who may gain nothing extra by doing the job properly, and in fact might be able to gain by letting someone cheat?