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comment by b_b
b_b  ·  4868 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Is Capitalism the Villain?
I agree with you and with Friedman that planned economies don't (can't) work, in principle. I think the main reason for this is that even a small economy is very complex and dynamic, and attempt to control it will fail because the controls cannot possibly anticipate every possible contingency that may arise in the future. That said, I am whole-heartedly behind a strongly progressive income tax, which I think is the real problem right now, not capitalism. The nominal tax rates have fallen so precipitously in the decades since this was filmed that its hard to imagine them where they used to be (at the time the top rate was >70%, and that was down from ~90% immediately after WWII). IMHO, we should allow ALL of the bush cuts to expire (not just for the top bracket) as a start, and see what that does to the economy. Entrepreneurship is one of the great things about living in a free society, and I hope that we never move to a Euro style economy, if for no other reason than this, but we simply cannot let the wealth distribution skew any more in the wrong direction, if we are to have a healthy society moving forward. Taxes, not a planned economy are the best way to achieve this goal.




hootsbox  ·  4851 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Then you and Karl Marx are in wholehearted agreement. Go to Google (or another search engine), type in Communist Manifesto, and look at the number two pillar of Communism. That is why I am in favor of a more flat tax with no "loopholes" and no exclusions. We need to replace overly complex and overburdensome tax code. You and Thomas Jefferson are in wholehearted disagreement about the fruit of one's labors.
b_b  ·  4851 days ago  ·  link  ·  
You are wholeheartedly incorrect on both counts.

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785.

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Gen. Kosciusko, 1811

Is that not advocating a progressive tax, even if he may have been talking about property tax and tariffs, since income tax wasn't around at the time?

As to the Marx comparison, there are 10 pillars of communism. Progressive income tax is one, but it does not exist in a vacuum. To say that advocating a progressive income tax is akin to Marxism is very much along the lines of saying that anyone who thinks murder is wrong is Jewish, since Moses forbade it.

Eisenhower of all people believed in a strongly progressive income tax (maybe you are one of those disciples of Skousen who thinks that Eisenhower was a Red). It has nothing whatsoever to do with "fruits of one's labors". It has to do with evening out growth and helping to ensure that the middle class actually has money to support consumerism, of which 70% of the economy depends. Mathematically, a flat tax can only lead to aggregation of wealth, due to the geometric nature of the long-run growth of capital.

And as an aside, why do conservatives insist that the tax code be simple? The economy is complex and dynamic, why shouldn't the way we levy taxes reflect that. There isn't a one size fits all solution. Should airplanes be more simple? Computers? Some things are by their nature complicated.

hootsbox  ·  4758 days ago  ·  link  ·  
What about these quotes by Thomas Jefferson as well?

"Taxes on consumption, like those on capital or income, to be just, must be uniform." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Smith, 1823.

"Excessive taxation... will carry reason and reflection to every man's door, and particularly in the hour of election." --Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798.

Of course, your quote above has a curious little statement "...and its surplus....not accumulating more debt to "stimulate" jobs with "shovel ready (Oh did I say that out loud!)". Jefferson believed in retiring the public debt and using the surplus to pay for stuff - we do just the opposite - and the "wealthy" (whatever that is?) will never be taxed enough to satisfy the "blob" called reckless and unchecked indebtedness and spending! Return to fiscal "sanity" just like you do at home! We should DEMAND that our public officials (or elect new ones) live within their means just like the rest of us!

hootsbox  ·  4758 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I'll check out the context of the first quote from the letter to James Madison, but it does not seem to jive with these quotes from TJ:

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government....Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not....Thomas Jefferson

And from another post:

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it....Thomas Jefferson

I don't agree with Eisenhower, and the progressive income tax did not exist in this country before Woodrow Wilson's Administration (it is still a Marxist tenant regardless). Before that, you had monarch's who levied taxes to support all kinds of things: altruistic as well a petty.