We're a cynical, sarcastic generation! Religion is the opposite - an exercise in sincerity. Also, we live in a time where it's very hard to "live in your own little world"; information from every corner of the world reaches every other corner of the world. Nonstop. We're constantly berated by a medley of facts, half-truths, white lies, big lies, opinions, and perspectives that cause us to constantly question what spiritual "place" we may have come to on our own. Religion or not, inner peace can be hard to find with an open mind - that's for sure.
I think that a big cause is that organized religion necessitates a respect for authority - specifically a respect for authority being able to provide factual information. Before everyone got all their information from Wikipedia, much of your information about the world came from school, or from church. However, now that information is available at everyone's fingertips, everything is fact-checked. When your pastor says that man was made in a day by God, then any smart-alec with a smart phone can turn around and say "well, science says it was over billions of years so..." In short, it's a rise in skepticism. People argue that this is the same as cynicism, but I think it's entirely neutral. It's a normal human instinct to look for knowledge and investigate claims, and we can do that totally unfettered now, and many peoples' search for facts fills the gaps that God used to fill. In addition, we can find at an instant the errors, the inconsistencies, and the morally questionable truths about religions - and not just the one we grew up in, but ALL religions. The people in this interview do a great job of describing many of the reasons - some lose faith because of difficulties, while others simply learn to question and find the facts that make faith unnecessary. Some still want to believe, but others are happy without God. I definitely approve of NPRs approach towards atheism and agnosticism as opposed to many mainstream media outlets who would have presented these people all as sad, hopeless, directionless, or belligerent individuals. I look forward to the day when we can turn on the TV or radio and see the nonreligious presented in this light.
t's a normal human instinct to look for knowledge and investigate claims, and we can do that totally unfettered now, and many peoples' search for facts fills the gaps that God used to fill.
To continue your thought, it's that search for facts that many become frustrated with religion. It's not about finding the final answer, but rather constantly asking questions that oftentimes have no answer. In a world that supposedly has all the answers, many choose this path. A path I'd argue is "safer" than the world of no answers.
Hmm, why would you call it 'safer'? I would say that constantly asking questions with no answer takes rather a lot more bravery than to accept none and move on, or even worse, accept an answer that may be false and not question it. Perhaps our knowledge has limits - that's another good question - but if it does, why not push it as far as we can? And what's safe about that?
A lot of it sounds like they didn't actually understand what they believed, so when they were confronted with alternate worldviews they couldn't defend their traditions. A little more of it sounds like they simply didn't have a good enough "safety net" ie. a community in which they could be supported or a mentor to whom they could express these doubts without discomfort.
didn't actually understand what they believed
And I think that's why a lot of people tend to be less religious nowadays. Religion isn't meant to be fully understood, and many people don't like that. In the world we live in, everyone wants definitive answers. 2 + 2 = 4. The Moon is 238,900 miles from Earth. Religion on the other hand, is always up to interpretation. What does the story of Adam and Eve eating the fruit of good and evil about? Religion is what you make of it, and most people don't want to put in the extra effort to figure out what it means for them. To me, being a Christian is a form of solace. I find peace knowing that I'm know the greatest thing in the universe and that the greatest thing (God) has got my back.
That's true now, yes. Religion has gotten very feel-good in that way. When it was written though, it, too, was supposed to be definitive answers (And for a lot of matters remains so). There's no misinterpreting the 10 commandments for example, seeing how around half of them are about worshipping one true God and that all other gods are false. It was written by men who lived in a scary world that seemed to make no sense, which lacked any inherent justice, and for which there was no explanation of our presence. So they attributed it to God and wrote the stories He allegedly told them. Adam and Eve was supposed to be a literal story explaining humans - a myth. The story of Job is a myth to explain why bad things happen to seemingly good people, and the tower of Babel is a myth to explain languages. They are also moralistic stories as well, and incidentally over time we have shed the mythic nature of them because we have pretty good explanations of a lot of what the stories tried to explain. But we retained the moral explanations behind them, and reinterpreted them to fit our modern world. Although, that may also just be what I make if it, and if it's what you find solace in then you have to follow your interpretation. I would like to at least play devil's advocate and suggest that most people do put a lot of effort to figure out what philosophy and existence mean to them. There's more to think about than just religion, and people can find the answers to their life questions not from the likes of Jesus, Mohammed, or Buddha but also from Confucius, Socrates, Immanuel Kant, and Bertrand Russell.Religion on the other hand, is always up to interpretation. What does the story of Adam and Eve eating the fruit of good and evil about?
Although, that may also just be what I make if it
I would agree with you in that your explanation above is simply how you individually view it. However I do agree with you that They are all moralistic stories. Regardless of if these stories happened or not, they speak what I believe to be truth as to how we are meant to live. And that's all that really matters. And you're right. A person could get all their answers from great philosophers. I'm not trying to put one over the other in this regard. Where I think religion though has a benefit it that if I'm not mistaken, all of them take into account the afterlife. But that's an entirely different discussion.
I don't mean for this to come off as disrespectful or rude, but I disagree with that mentality wholeheartedly. I believe that from mystery comes innovation and growth. Again no disrespect, but how do you aspire to do anything without a desire for mystery?
Mystery should not be seen as an excuse never to question-- in that, I would agree with Tim Minchin. What I dislike about that approach is that the material and empirical try to claim the immaterial and ideal. The material is incredibly important, and I don't wish to deny that; however, the material is not all of reality. The material is simply what can be observed empirically. Different tools must be used for different aspect of reality, and the best tool we have for the immaterial is not empiricism.
I maintain that reality contains the immaterial, not necessarily existence. Existence as a term forces us into a certain understanding of the world, which would not necessarily include Reality. I would agree that there is no such thing as the immaterial in your eyes, as your (and my!) eyes can only perceive the material. However, I have experienced certain.... unquantifiable things that are [currently] best expressed through spiritual terms. Maybe one day we'll discover exactly how the the brain works in its totality. Until then, it is reasonable for me to express my experiences in an immaterial fashion.
I don't deny that everyone should always question. I agree completely with that. But what I'm saying is that I believe that no matter how many questions we answer, there will and should always be a sense of mystery within ourselves to drive us forward.
not mystery, but the love of God that overflows and spills over. In the Tanakh, a prophet (Jeremiah) complains that God's Word burns his fire like bones and that he cannot keep his mouth shut. The mystery of God is to be appreciated, but it is not our sole motivator (although it certainly can be!)
I like the way you speak. While I agree that it shouldn't be the sole motivator, I believe it should be at the heart of all motivation.
I saved this to watch when I can devote more time to it.
I grew up Protestant, in the Salvationist tradition. I'm still heavily influenced by their emphasis on Social Justice, but I find that the core of my doctrine is more easily identifiable with that of the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox. I'm currently with the Salvation Army
Hmm, that's very interesting. Any Eastern Orthodox in specific?
I don't know that I've ever met anyone who believed real presence in the eucharist. So you to it's the real deal and not a metaphor?
Most of Christendom does. I don't know the specifics, but what I do know is that it's holy. Early Church writers held strongly to it, and you can find it in all of the ancient churches today-- never mind that the Eucharist as "symbolic" only arose during the 16th century. That's evidence enough for me.
That's really very interesting. To clarify then, you believe when you take communion that it's actually Christ's flesh and blood? I don't mean to sound rude if I do come off that way. I'm just very interested.
I'm extremely fascinated by this. So you don't believe that the early church had any flawed views? I mean, if you look at the pharisees, they definitely had some misinterpretations about what the Bible meant.
The Pharisees weren't Christian; the Apostles spent time with Jesus (y'know, God). If I can't trust the early church to be right on these matters, I can trust no one. I don't know if the early church was flawed or not, but I have to trust that the Holy Spirit led them.
I commend you and am very impressed by your diligence. Keep it up and I hope you have a very happy life!
I was raised Seventh-Day Adventist, and now am an Atheist. For me I grew up entirely in the church with schooling and church every weekend. All of my knowledge was obtained through the church until I met the internet. While it certainly didn't change me right away, the access to knowledge that actually made some sense to me started m on the path towards atheism. Honestly I was probably bitter about some things that happened in my childhood, but that isn't the reason I changed. Once I realized how amazing science was, and being skeptic, my rational mind took over and I couldn't get enough of it. At first I called myself agnostic and then atheist after I read Dawkins "The God Delusion". Soon I found myself in the midst of a sea of skepticism that I didn't even realize existed. I don't know why I wrote this, but I guess my point is that it wasn't only one thing that drove me away from religion. Now I just have to figure out how to break it to my poor parents.
Here's a question, and an honest one (I'm not trying to make fun, I'm just genuinely curious, since I didn't have that hyper-religious experience as a kid). When you come from a background where the Word is all, then you discover that there is so much more to life, do you kind of feel like your whole life has been a lie? Or like you've not really been living in the world, to some extent? It seems a bit like a very grand Santa Clause to me, but Santa is the only qualitatively similar thing I can think of fro my life. Did you have an 'ah ha!' moment, or did you gradually move away from your upbringing?
Yes definitely. The realization that the way things operate are drastically different than the way I was taught was jarring. It's difficult in some situations, for example I went to a private university that was expensive, didn't provide an in depth education, and completely ignored some facts such as the age of the earth and evolution. My disbelief probably started as being disgruntled from going to church every weekend and other church functions. I just got tired of it, and the fact that I had depression and no one seemed to care didn't help that fact. I came to these realizations about the same time I moved out on my own, so I was suddenly in this "real world" that I had been sheltered from for so long. This sort of started the "ah ha!" moment for me, but it was more of a "don't care anymore" attitude. Then after I started reading about the science behind the things I didn't know, it truly became the 'ah ha!' moment as I realized I was definitely atheist after understanding more than I ever had about basic science. It's not like I didn't learn chemistry, I was simply never taught evolution. Those things were always scoffed at. It hurts my parents I know, and I haven't told them I'm an atheist so that's fun. They know I don't believe everything they believe, but my mother feels like I won't go to heaven since I have decided to "reject the truth". It's difficult because I know they love me, but at the same time I feel like I was somewhat brainwashed and abused by religion. But so were they...
What I don't understand is Christians that have the need to fully accept the bible and all its teachings as fact. I was raised Roman Catholic and I consider myself to be religious still. But its a completely different type of religion. I base my actions off of principles that I view as good and would be appreciated by everyone. I use the bible and my religion to help me cope with things throughout life, to make it easier for myself and to help others in their time of need. Religion shouldn't focus so much on how everyone else is wrong, it should only be about basic life necessities. Like being good to one another and being happy. Other than that religion has no point.
Religion shouldn't focus so much on how everyone else is wrong, it should only be about basic life necessities.
You hit the nail on the head. Too often people use religion as a measuring stick as to how much more holy they are in comparison to another person. But that is the most opposite view of religion. At a recent church service I attended, the pastor was speaking that the true task of being a Christian is to love everyone. How simple of a concept is that?! It truly is a bummer that many who claim to be religious distance themselves from non-Christians. That's not how Jesus acted and if us Christians wish to live a Christ-like life, we won't either.