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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  2213 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Ask Hubski: How do you guys work to avoid engaging in gossip at work?

I came into this thread supporting the given notion of gossip as bad, a sign of confrontation that has yet to play out. Reading your take on gossip theory and its applications... and, fuck me, maybe I should start gossiping more.





_refugee_  ·  2213 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Eh. While I agree on major aspects of what klein has to say, it disregards gossip as occurring in an environment in which negativity is seen as "unprofessional" and you can't necessarily trust everyone you work with (who isn't management) simply because you work with them. It's unwise, for instance, to gossip about a person to someone who is that person's friend - whether or not your observations are true, you run the risk of upsetting various precarious apple-carts of social interaction layers in such and similar cases.

For the most part, I agree we're social creatures and talking about each other is a major component of interacting, of caring, and of life. I agree gossip is not inherently bad; we should embrace that we do it, and maybe not sweat over it so much (on the day-to-day).

However in rd's post he indicates discomfort. With the level of gossip, with the tone of gossip, with the negative impacts of the gossip in his workplace. To me that says this has gone beyond what klein is talking about and the "talking about humans to bond with other humans cuz we're human and we care about humans" has evolved into something a little less group-psychology-garden-variety-friendly. Something that probably feels good in the moment, but maybe afterwards, maybe leaves one feeling bad. Something that's not friendly conversational heads' up about who's having a bad day or who messed up majorly on one project once...something that is turning into trenchant negativity which no one can or will dig out of.

Once you get a solid negative atmosphere going in a work group, it is haaaaaaaaard to get out of it. Like shovelling up through the pile of shit twice before you breathe fresh air hard.

For the record, and illustratively: my anti-gossip rep at work stems from an incident where one team member(PC, for Problem Child) was telling other members of the team a certain worker's(MT) year-end rating. PC was telling the truth about the rating...however the rating was unfavorable. Like, really unfavorable. Like, "PC had to have heard this from MT's lips and now is going around passing the information out like popcorn and I know for a fact MT wouldn't want that to happen," sort of 'unfavorable.' Like "this has crossed the line from gossiping, to telling details which should be kept private when/if/until the person who had to live that experience is ready to talk about it." There are degrees of tact and appropriateness even when it comes to healthy, relationship-building gossip such as klein addresses above.

kleinbl00  ·  2212 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I like how you assume anyone who gossips is an idiot about it.

user-inactivated  ·  2212 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    There are degrees of tact and appropriateness even when it comes to healthy, relationship-building gossip such as klein addresses above.

Mmm... So, I guess the next question is what defines 'positive' gossip where the end result is still speaking of others - if at all.

kleinbl00  ·  2212 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Here's the problem:

When you put your foot down and say "I won't engage in this immoral claptrap" you've automatically added yourself to the outgroup.

Unless you are in a position of leadership, or have enough charisma to assume the mantle of leadership, or are a compelling enough orator that you can make everyone cease and desist in the behavior without resenting you in such a way that they never again want to gossip, all you've done is made yourself the enemy. Period. Full stop. The gossip shall continue. But now it's about you.

Unhealthy work environments? I haz them. I had a boss single me out for drug testing because they realized too late that I wasn't a born-again Christian like everyone else they hired. I worked at a place where one of my coworkers had to go to HR because he was sick of being shot in the face with airsoft pistols (it didn't change anything). Same job? I was the only person that hadn't seen Melissa's tits multiple times because when we went to trade shows I walked the floor like a citizen, gathered information like a citizen, and then went back to my hotel to rest; I didn't spend all day at bars and strip clubs.

And when it came time for layoffs, the guy who hadn't seen Melissa's tits was the first to go, even though it cost the company $20m in billable clients.

You can't fight the tide. If you aren't management, stop. You're participating in a work environment, not policing it and when you try, you simply reveal yourself as a narc.

user-inactivated  ·  2211 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    When you put your foot down and say "I won't engage in this immoral claptrap" you've automatically added yourself to the outgroup.

Similar experience happened with my cadre in HS. They burned out faster than I had, allowing underclassmen to take up their would-be positions. Sucked since we were the core crew that got shit done, but I grew more closer to my staff that picked up where they left off. I kept noticably quiet around cadre as they ragged on the new staff, and eventually we fell away. Shortly after I got some cute pranks pulled on me until graduation with some palpable snark from the latter group about it.

Curios on what your take away from the 'Melissa' layoff was in terms of how did that affect your decisions in future jobs/interacting with co-workers.

kleinbl00  ·  2211 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That job was such a fucking catastrophe.

It was one of those jobs where you could get the 25-sheet design done three months in advance and you'd still get in trouble because the project manager ended up air-freighting 5 racks to Fargo, ND. Know what it costs to put 5 full-size APW racks in a plane and get them to Fargo overnight? Me, neither. But I know it's more than the profit margin.

They laid me off and lost $20m worth of business which was pretty rad. It was my last "job" prior to running off and joining the circus (working in Hollywood is what all the people who were going to join the circus but realized they needed to eat did). I have not had steady employment since 2007, but I've also had no problems making ends meet since 2007. And, you know, you casually discover that your supervisor mixed Decade of Aggression while sending him stems for Black Hole Sun because, well, it's never come up before.

So I can't really say. I basically never worked a jobby-job again, which kinda fucks up the object lesson I guess.

user-inactivated  ·  2211 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Meh, still a nice story to compliment the prior statements, and always get a kick out of the way you write. Glad things are working out since then, guessing since things are more project based in Hollywood, it's one of those 'wait [insert mid-term length of time] and you'll have a new boss/co-worker' deals anyway.

kleinbl00  ·  2211 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah.

The good ones you work with over and over again.

The bad ones you burn with impunity.