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comment by OftenBen
OftenBen  ·  4048 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Losing the Flame of Rebellion

When I say 'Flame of Rebellion' I'm talking less in the literal 'Rioting in the streets' meaning and more in the abstract 'Our world can be better than it is, and should be better than it is' sense. Flame is an apt metaphor to me because it describes a source of energy that must be fed, stoked and tended or else it goes out. I agree wholeheartedly that subversion is infinitely more powerful social innovation. And I'm not saying that someone who is successful can't have a 'Rebel' mindset, it just seems like its easy to lose a desire for change once things are 'paying off.'

With the Charlie Wilson example, I'll definitely add the book to my reading list, until I've read it I don't feel comfortable making any judgement or opinion regarding it. Maturity is working within the system, but just to use a current very controversial example, If I spend my entire professional career to try and get to a high ranking position in the NSA, I still won't be able to limit it's power, or make it obey the constitution. The current 'system' doesn't let those types of things happen. And I certainly don't want to spend my entire adult life position-scrabbling in a government agency with the dream of one day taking it down. When the procedures of democracy are not the ones being used and obeyed, how is a democratic effort supposed to effect change?





kleinbl00  ·  4048 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    If I spend my entire professional career to try and get to a high ranking position in the NSA, I still won't be able to limit it's power, or make it obey the constitution.

Hans Mark bent the NRO to his will. He shoved the Space Shuttle down its throat as its director, where previous directors had run away screaming, because he felt it was too useful to the civilian space effort. It remains a controversial decision; the space shuttle was a piece of shit that set space exploration (and space-based reconaissance) back 20 years.

The real example holds for your hypothetical NSA. Congress has clearly shown it has no power over the NSA. Only the NSA does. Edward Snowden clearly doesn't - all he can do is expose them. Which would have been more impessive if we hadn't known about it all eight years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(2...)

The other switch as one grows more experienced with a "system" is the switch from the theoretical to the practical, from the strategic to the tactical. Mark Klein had 22 years with AT&T when he took Room 641 to the press - was that "youthful rebellion?" or was that "mature subversion?"

As far as "position scrabbling" you're responding to a statement in which I explained how a 30-year-old kid ended up running the secret war in Afghanistan. A friend of mine got his undergrad, then became the CIA bureau chief for Macedonia within a year. Who knows what he'd be doing if he'd stayed in.

When you say 'Flame of Rebellion' you're talking about the passion to stand up for the democratic principles our founding fathers yadda yadda. So really, you're asking "how do you keep idealism alive?"

By not paying attention.

"There are days when I honestly wish I'd been born dumber." Perhaps your problem is you are not well-read enough to understand how very, very little impact "Democracy" has had on the world around you. Let me know if you'd like a reading list.

OftenBen  ·  4048 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I would like the reading list.

You've given me a lot to think about to be sure.