a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment
AnSionnachRua  ·  4261 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: A list of "Men's Rights" issues that feminism is already working on

    Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.
See, this is the kicker for me, especially as an anthropologist. I can't fully accept feminism because the idea of patriarchy is just too crude for me. The patriarchy presented in that list is rather progressive, I have to say, since it admits that many of the problems men face are also part of patriarchy, rather than asserting a rather primitive freedom-subjection contrast on top of a masculinity-femininity one.

But it's the "by men" part that gets me, as if men get together and decide to oppress women (and in so doing oppress themselves in certain ways). I know feminism doesn't literally consider patriarchy that kind of conspiracy, but that's almost always what it reads like to me. The thing is, men and women as individuals don't constitute how gender is assigned and valued in society; rather, those values, attitudes and beliefs are inherited. Feminism is correct in admitting that they are social constructs, but whenever I read "feminists" writing and they bring up what "men" do it's like they miss that point of social construction.

Women are not excluded from industrial work "by men"; they're excluded by a set of values that say women are not allowed to work there.

Yeah, they're not exactly unaware of this.

    Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.
But I don't know...

This is a very charged issue so I feel I should be more eloquent, but I have a lot of trouble articulating myself on the topic.