And a contingent issue is the (possibly catch-22) interaction of promoting Hubski (here is looking at you mr. x.. ;)) and not having a large enough community that would manifest the issues that we are addressing. In general, I belong to the philosophical camp that takes the long-standing (and material "real life") human society as the 'mother nature' of mediated societies. There is n thousand years of social thought that informs the norms of long standing civilizations. We have, thus, various sources to tap for guidance on (a) thoughtful spaces of discourse, and (b) stratified social spaces. (Remember that "filter" I mentioned in my few initial posts?) I also hold a perhaps atypical view (for a geek who studied architecture and considers it a fundamental & civilizational creative action) that social and system architecture can not universally address the shortcomings of the humans. (Note 'universal', please.)