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aeromill  ·  3196 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Repugnant Conclusion

> Are you seriously calling taxation "just an exchange"? Do you want me to believe you don't know how taxes are collected, and what happens if you don't pay them?

Yes actually. You're exchanging your money for government goods and services. If you don't pay them then the government comes down on you because you still received the goods and services without paying them their rightful tax. Whether taxes are too high or too low relative to the services in your particular community can sway things for or against your favor, but you get the idea.

>Well, for starters, everyone is actually worse off because of it, because that's just how ruling over people works.

I said that if you focus on the wellbeing of the people then people and the government happens to be able to rule more efficiently as a side effect (this is assuming that's true which hasn't been established yet btw), that it's better for the people. You're responding that they're actually worse off because "that's just how ruling over people works." You may very well be right, but you haven't really supported that assertion by saying "it's just how it works." To clarify a point for you to refute: why is focusing on wellbeing bad for the people?

> Everyone would personally be better off getting to keep and use all of their own property as they see fit.

First, define property. Second, this libertarian dream land needs some sort of regulation to make sure chaos doesn't run amok. Here's a perfect example of people trying to keep to themselves not working out well. I highly recommend reading that article because it's very interesting, even outside the scope of this discussion.

> Besides, each individual's personal prosperity would contribute to the society's overall prosperity, or perhaps.. "happiness", if that suits you better.

It's not the total happiness that matters though. Happiness is only important to the "feeler" (poor choice of word, sorry) of said happiness. You have to remember, happiness is selected as the ultimate desirable good because it's what human nature dictates that each individual ultimately wants. We don't want an increase in total happiness, we want an increase in personal happiness. That being said, if society is collectively very happy (due to high population even though individually everyone is above average at best) then to the individual in that population, he's not living in a society that is ultimately desirable.

By overall point here is that if we try and maximize the happiness of everyone else (in addition to ourselves) then the result creates a synergistic effect where the sum is greater than the parts. To be even more simple: You can focus on your happiness have have 10 "headons" or you can help contribute to society, your family, your day-to-day life and if everyone else does the same than your happiness will be 15 "headons." You might ask yourself, "what if no one else does the same? Then I'm just contributing to their happiness with nothing in return." While that may be true that's just the Tragedy of the Commons at which point you can only hope that your actions influence others to do the same which will ultimately help you in the end.

Sorry for the ramble, my thoughts tend to run on this subject.