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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  2457 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Fighting Fires For Free, Aging Volunteers Struggle To Recruit The Next Generation

One other thing that this article does not touch on. The obesity problem and so many young men out of shape has rendered the pool of eligible candidates lower. Lexington, KY put out a call for free volunteer firefighter training and the requirements were something like 20 pushups, 10 pull-ups, 8 minute mile, climb a ladder with a pack on in a certain time, pull a fire hose x feet in y seconds, able to lift and carry 80 pounds, etc. Some 200 or so people, men and women I might add, showed up and 20 or so met the physical needs of the job. The job only paid on service rendered but it is considered a high prestige job and they could not get enough people to fill all the positions.

A million years ago I dated a dorky nerd girl who had this amazing sister that was her diametric opposite: the sister was a fire jumper. As in she parachuted into forest fires and cleared back burns, and did scary dangerous work including face offs with wild animals, traversing steep canyons and blazing trails and marking spots for the fire retardant air drops. When I was at my peak physical form, she ran circles around me, lifted more than I was able and had crazy physical endurance. (Her day job was a bouncer.) I got the chance to meet a few of the others on her team and even though she was one of the 'weaker' people in that group it hit home what a physically demanding job fire and rescue is. You can read and watch all you want, but stand next to those guys and realize those folks are STRONG. When they started to talk about lowering physical standards for EMT and firefighters in California to get more people into the forestry and fire departments in the late 80's, these people lost the farm. Since they only got paid if they were fighting fires, and if memory serves they got health benefits but no pension etc, many of them threatened to walk if people unable to do the physical work were let into the organization.

I have brought this up here on Hubski and elsewhere, but the country needs to stop the bullshit and figure out if we want to be a functional society or not. Firefighters are kind of important, and those people need to be paid and held in a high regard. Teachers need to once again be held to a high standard and also hold an honorable position in society. I think we send too many people to college and not enough people to union halls. And I wish I was able to pull all these thoughts together and write up a coherent statement as to why. My one good thought on this is that I am going to be dead in 15-20 years when all the chickens come home to roost and there is not enough people to do the grunt work and the place falls apart so I don't have to watch the aftermath.





snoodog  ·  2457 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Volunteer fire department is basically a 1/2 to 3/4 time job with no pay. For insurance and regulatory reasons the volunteers need to take almost all the training that the regular guys do and that eats up a lot of time. By the time you do your monthly training and then required minimum hours you are putting in ~60-80 hours a month minimum. The only people that can afford to do that either dont sleep or are retired.

On the subject of obesity that's also a huge problem for the volunteers, not only is the pool smaller but the people that need rescuing are bigger... way bigger. My buddy was volunteer EMS and blew out his back rescuing a 300+lb lady. Getting a 300lb person down a set of stairs needs either really expensive equipment or is just a recipe for injury and mostly its just injury since nobody wants to buy expensive stuff.

Realistically through its too expensive to provide services everywhere in the country, there are places that simply do not have enough population density to provide organized emergency services and need to revert to a more rural existence. The missing element there is that small communities are being choked by shitty one size fits all regulation that applies the same standards of training and regulation that exists in larger cities, and areas with higher density and that cant be supported by a community of a couple hundred. Lower standards of training should be fine in smaller communities.

user-inactivated  ·  2457 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I tried, for a short period of time, to find some volunteer work this summer. I had to put a lid on that idea for a few reasons, but I digress. One of the things I found a bit upsetting was the number of volunteer positions that really constitute as skilled labor. If the position you want filled has a requirement of a two year degree and/or continuing education in the field the position is for, you really oughta pay people at least something. There's a huge difference between being able to clean up litter along a creek bed and say being a chemist's assistant at an environmental clean up company.

As for finding people who are physically fit, I recommend organizations try to recruit people who are not only young, but physically active. College sports players readily come to mind. NASCAR Teams, for example, recruit college athletes to be on their pit crews saying "Not everyone is gonna get into the NFL, but if you're willing to be trained, we have a heck of a job for you." I think if fire departments and such did something similar, and offered good pay, they'd have a few takers. Prior military service people, especially the Coast Guard, would be another good place to look.

user-inactivated  ·  2457 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The problem is that common jobs get no glory.. and no/minimal pay. Teachers are underpaid. EMT's are underpaid. Firefighters are underpaid. There is a vast, critical, list of 'jobs' out there that do not pay or pay minimal. Back in the days when we had a functional society (as he looks back through Wratten23A eyepiece filters) being someone involved in the community was a status symbol. Yea the scout leader did it for free, but they earned respect from the community as someone who gave a shit. Teachers have always been underpaid, but even up to the 1970's teaching was a well regarded and respected profession. I know I sound like a broken record here, but the blame for this lies on the Baby Boomer generation. So many of these people have the attitude "DO NOT INCONVENIENCE ME OR ELSE" coupled with an attitude of "that is someone else's problem stop bothering me." So all the grunt work style jobs got shit on for 50 years as a whole generation went for high dollar careers. Then they used those careers to shit on blue collar work, gut the middle of the country and send quite a bit of the manufacturing base overseas. We all cannot be millionaires and we all cannot be the guy in charge; someone has to do the work and those jobs often times don't pay more than median for the area.

    As for finding people who are physically fit...

WOW. Holy shit what a great idea that I would have never even thought of. Go talk to high school athletes, many of which are facing fast food and walmart as jobs, get them to be volunteer firefighters and pay to get them in EMT training. Huh. I'm gonna go write some letters today, thanks man.

steve  ·  2456 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    pay to get them in EMT training.

hell... offer EMT training in a high school setting for seniors who aren't on the college track? There are several options for my kids in high school here for voc-ed... they can get plumbing, electrical, diesel repair, etc. training so that when they graduate, they're ready for apprenticeship.