a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by crafty

You're great at bringing out the internal pessimist in myself, and reading your response, I see that. I agree, fighting the NSA and the deep government it's attached to is certainly a David versus Goliath battle, comically one sided to be sure. You call the litigation "theater of the highest order", and I suppose I agree with that to a degree but my question in response would be, what part of the government isn't theater? Or atleast, what aspects of "US democracy" are the least covered in theater curtains, giving an opening to motivated individuals to advocate for change? Is the entire federal government "lost," so-to-speak, in your view? Are the best avenues of opposition at the local level, or perhaps through independent activism/media? I don't really like the idea that the Stasi is already here and there is absolutely nothing that can or should be done about it, even if it is true. It seems like that idea just plays right into their hands.

You say Congress needs to be accountable to the voters, and the NSA needs to be accountable to Congress, which seems like a good prescription, although I take it you don't think that will or could happen? I'm somewhat cognizant of American history, and I know struggles like these have played out in American politics before, between empowered groups and the disenfranchised. I'm curious, given your knowledge, where do you think we're headed? Do you really think the current trajectory of American democracy is tenable over the coming century or can outside forces cause fundamental shifts in the existing power structures?

kleinbl00  ·  3635 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I would say it's more of a windshield vs. bug battle. That's the real problem: in thinking that there's a possibility for something resembling a "battle" (as opposed to more or less roadkill) we overvalue frontal confrontation while simultaneously missing any opportunity for lateral action.

The government is far from worthless. It took two years between the Bush administration relaxing pollution controls and the AMA recommending pregnant women stop eating tuna. Four years after Obamacare and our uninsured have dropped by a factor of two. Two years after the Halloween Massacre and we completely miss the fall of the Shah. I recognize that most of these examples are negative, but perhaps that's better: if a Stansfield Turner were appointed to the NSA, the NSA would be crippled within weeks.

And that's the take-away: when you're dealing with an organization that operates by appointment, you need appointments that do what you want, rather than what they want. Henry Stimson shut the Black Chamber down with one signature. The NSA doesn't need to be shut down - that would be ridiculous. But it certainly needs to be brought to heel. The problem is that the NSA doesn't do what they do because they're evil, they do it because it's easier than doing it right. And without a compulsion to do it right, they'll do it easy every time.

Is the Stasi here? Please. There are flagrant examples of things going horribly wrong for liberty but there are flagrant examples of people getting really upset about that. Remember: the NSA has been spying flagrantly since the inception of the NSA. What's changed is that people are (A) aware (B) pissed off.

Really, we're better off than we were.

crafty  ·  3635 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think you're right, the appointments really are key. That's what I find so interesting, or perhaps frustrating, in all the hand wringing and finger pointing over Obama's culpability. On one hand he is just one person, hoisted on top of the vast executive bureaucracy, how can he be responsible for all of their varied and long-running machinations, but on the other hand, he is ultimately responsible for those appointments (with congressional approval) which could drastically change things. In 2008 I really thought Obama could clean house, but it doesn't seem like he did. If that's the solution you're waiting around for, I'll join you in your pessimism. Then again, the one thing about the future is that it's unpredictable, so who knows.

I don't seriously think the Stasi is here either. What we have is certainly different, but I've seen people make comparisons.