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comment by wasoxygen
wasoxygen  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Condé Nast ends unpaid internships

One would think it obvious that salary isn't the only remuneration one might get from an internship.

Remember high school, when the guidance counselor encouraged us to join clubs and do volunteer work becuase it would be good experience and look good on a college application? Those activities required work, but they were not paid.

Getting a chance to network at a place like Condé Nast sounds like a great opportunity for someone just starting out in a competitive industry, one who isn't likely to qualify for a great salary elsewhere anyway.

What's next, shut down the Peace Corps? They offer plenty of benefits, but minimum wage sure ain't one of them.





istara  ·  3799 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree. The question is the length of the internship. If it's a month - maybe two - actually getting to work with a major media company, then that is something you simply couldn't pay for in terms of trying to get the equivalent experience and training - and contacts - on a university media course.

Bear in mind that most interns start out pretty useless. They are a cost to a business. Much easier to hire someone who's worked for a year somewhere, and will still accept minimum wage.

The media is (regrettably perhaps) a hugely aspirational and popular industry to work in. If you are prepared to roll up your sleeves and cope with a couple more months of debt, then you will show your mettle.

user-inactivated  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Deferment of debt payments + covere insurance almost certainly = a better financial deal than a minimum wage job over the same period.

wasoxygen  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Exactly. Similarly,

Make contact with Condé Nast insiders + get experience in a publishing environment + earn an eye-catching resume bullet > remain excluded from the business because the interns before you demanded all that plus a salary.

user-inactivated  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·  

...*if* you can afford to live while you do it. And inevitably there are going to be people who simply can't, very smart people, people who want/need to ensure some fiscal security. Those people will skip Conde Nast's internship, and they will lose some deserving candidates. Which is why it's not a great business model in my opinion.

istara  ·  3799 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's true - but plenty of those people also wouldn't have made it to university, or expensive "media training courses". Life isn't fair. It isn't a level playing field - for any industry.

wasoxygen  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The same can be said for the Peace Corps: people requiring more fiscal security than they offer won't apply. Same for volunteer work anywhere.

Condé Nast could always hire outstanding talent outright. Why not also leave a door open to people who are willing to do unpaid entry-level work with hopes of being recognized or forming valuable contacts? How is it different from someone who gives up a salary and leisure to take classes, hoping to improve their chances later?

Some people won't be able to afford the internship or the classes. About them we agree with Sophie Tucker: "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

user-inactivated  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's true that if you compare Conde Nast having unpaid internships to the Peace Corps, or to college, you can make some arguments. But if you compare them to having actual paid internships it kinds falls apart. They'll still get applications, of course, but it won't be the best candidates.

Yeah, they can just hire talent outright. It's better. The cult of the internship is ridiculous these days -- at my school I was essentially told that if I didn't have a couple of them on my resume before I graduated I wouldn't get a job. I hate it, like I hate everything else about my education. Internship is just a fucking buzzword, just a thing for college students to do during their summers instead of working at the family business etc. Whatever experience and networking benefits you get could just as easily be gotten at your first salaried job. No reason to accelerate the process.

wasoxygen  ·  3842 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I share your dim view of formal education. Aside from being so expensive, it doesn't so much prepare you for the working world as give you a framed piece of paper saying you are now eligible to enter the working world.

Almost all of what I need to know for work was learned on the job. My degree isn't even related to my work, but I leave it on my resume so employers can check a box in their hiring checklist.