With the influx of new users from Reddit (I think mk mentioned it was around 650 new users for Hubski overnight a couple of days back), prompted by /r/truereddit and /r/theoryofreddit posts, I was wondering what you guys considered to be the death of a community content website, and what causes it.
I must admit, I am one of the Redditors who came here to see what the fuss was about. I found Hubski to be really interesting, a more close knit community. I think still has a small way to come before I can truly enjoy and use is as I did Reddit and (formerly) Digg. Admittedly though, I can see myself using this site more and more, as Reddit has become a bit of a guilty pleasure for me recently, I'm enjoying it less and going on it "just because".
I think, to put it bluntly, Reddit is dying a slow death.
There are too many users (8 Million unique users a day), there is a distinct lack of community, with people preferring to circlejerk or use puns than to have actual discussion (which is why I'm growing to like this site and have hence signed up), and finally every subreddit is plagued by memes, trolls and other bits of content that really draw away from what could still be a fantastic site.
I'm not sure if it's users that specifically kill the site. Digg now has 13,000 unique hits a day, not a massive number, but I don't feel it's recovered at all to what it used to be.
I'm kind of worried Hubski will soon see a massive Reddit migration and become Reddit v2.0. Hopefully this site will stay as it is now, a place for discussion and good content. I also hope that if we do see a migration, we don't all turn into "those people", you know, the "we were here before it was cool / it was so much better when..." people.
Apologies for bringing up Reddit again, I know it's been done to death recently but I believe it is valid to examine this question, to see if we can prevent it or change the game. Plus it is kind of interesting.
So what do you guys think causes a Community Content Site to die out?
Reddit is far from dying a slow death. It's getting more users day by day. Some people may think that's a bad thing, but it's not going to kill the site. By all estimates it is getting more and more popular.
Digg died because of the new website design. Reddit was always referenced on digg and when the new version came out, there was a massive exodus because the users felt betrayed and sold out.
Now if we're talking about a community content site's culture, then reddit has certainly undergone a sea change in content since its inception. A trend away from articles towards images and other low effort content.
I do think it's a bit presumptuous to extol hubski and deride a redditor migration when you (and I!) are some of the people to have just signed up from reddit. In fact, right now my feed at least is filled with posts by people who made their accounts within the last 24 hours. I'd wait to see how hubski settles down before passing final judgment.
Yes, my mistake, I meant in terms of content, not in terms of popularity!
I think that is massively true, the content is now cheap and easy. It's on par to ordering a McDonalds over ordering from a fancy restaurant. The latter is more expensive and time consuming but more fulfilling in the long run.
That's what I thought. I know there is probably going to be a lot of influx from Redditors migrating or at least examining the site, and I agree that letting the dust settle is the only way to see.
I think the term that Reddit is dying is being thrown around too much and is far from the truth. In fact you said it yourself, there are
- 8 Million unique users a day
As for Hubski becoming reddit 2.0, I don't think it'll happen anytime soon or even at all. Since Hubski revolves around a tight-knit community who mostly prefers intelligent, interesting discussions to the classic meme it'll be difficult for any normal number of reddit users to transform this site to be their own little reddit.
That's a worry of mine. It's already known that Hubski is making a few waves in Reddit. I fear that it might become Reddit 2.0 because of the people coming here to check it out and become "internet famous" on some other, "smaller" site, with less people to compete with.
That said, I don't want to sound high and mighty about it. People shouldn't be biased against. And, it's not really up to individuals to decide the content of a user generated content website, it's about what the majority wants and likes. Hopefully though, if the influx of people comes, the content the hivemind likes will be good.
We can only hope. I wonder if the people who post the stuff we complain about even bother coming here at the moment as hubski is just too small for the time being and there is not enough emphasis put on memes and pics ( thank god) for them to have an interest.
Yes, as I explained to possessedcow, I meant in terms of content rather than users! Otherwise I would be contradicting myself.
Yes, that's the thing I see as changing reddit. The fact that people can use cheap and easy memes and content to generate points that are, well, pointless. This self-made competitive element drives the content to become more efficient, i.e: easy to manufacture and replicate. It's like the economy of the internet.
I hope what you said about Hubski is true, I've not been here for long at all but I already like the content and the users.
That said, do you think content change is the main reason for the downfall of community content sites? I discussed earlier that Digg's downfall was it's design change and subsequent feeling of "betrayal" by it's users. Do you think redditors will start migrating to avoid content, or will it largely become a "memebase" kind of deal? I have to agree about smaller subs though, I've since unsubbed from most large subs and concentrated on the smaller ones. More community based.
Yeah sorry about that, I didn't see it beforehand.
I think change in community-orientated websites aren't all governed by the same factors since every site has different admins, users, aspects and content, so despite there being similar aspects between Reddit and Digg, I don't think its absolutely reasonable to use Digg's past to explain whats happenning to reddit at the moment.
I definitely think the only Reddit users who will be joining hubski will be the ones who wish to avoid the ever-growing meme based content, which will most probably be a good thing as these people won't bring the content with the them as they are just seeking a new community which is no longer inundated with teenage boys trying to gain meaningless karma.
I've been part of a few web based communities and ended up over at Reddit about a year and a half ago.
I started out on the internet back in the ealry 90s where my interest in motorcycles drew me to AOL's motorcycle discussion group, then I discovered usenet discussion groups and eventually Yahoo groups. When it became apparent that the Yahoo sportbikes group wasn't being moderated (and it started getting spammed with ads) I moved to sportbikes.net where I had a home for almost a decade and eventually became a super-moderator.
I generated a lot of content for SBN. I wrote stories, posted articles, was active on the boards etc. One day, the guy who owned the site came on and announced that he had sold the site to a company called "Verticalscope." There weren't any real changes so I stayed on for a while, but eventually realized that I was being taken advantage of. I wasn't really a valued part of a community, I decided, I was working for nothing while someone else made a real profit from the content I was generating.
I think other members started to get the same feeling and the number of regulars on the board started to dwindle. Some of us eventually found our way to another site and started to make a go of it there, but then I was told that the guy who started this new site was none other than the guy who sold us out the first time. I was pissed, but I had friends there and stuck with it for a while - although I limited the amount of comments, articles and other content I generated.
Eventually I found Reddit and decided it was a decent alternative to my old haunts. There was a lot going on there and it seemed like fun. Of course, I missed the on-line relationships I was able to form when I was part of a smaller community, but the amount of content at Reddit was addictive.
After a while, I got more involved and started seeking out links and posting up self posts to add to the community (and I won't lie, build my karma). My posts were generally well received at first, but I have noticed over the past few months that just about everything I post now gets burried. Maybe I'm posting the wrong kind of stuff, I don't know, but I think the atmosphere there at Reddit turned unpleasant of late and, like so many others who have found their way here in the past few days, I have decided its time to make a change.
So, in answer to your question, I think it is a couple of things that make a site die. Casual users will quit coming to a site when they change their layout (for example, I never go to Jalopnik anymore because they changed their site layout about three years ago. I hated it so I left).
More important, I think the core members of a community opt out when they are made to feel unappreciated or are taken advantage of. When the core users opt out, your original content drops off and there is less interesting stuff to read. Without fresh, quality content people won't stay long and they won't get involved. When people hit your site and leave after a few minutes, you are done.
I've got to say, I think you hit the nail on the head there with the last paragraph. That's the exact feeling I get from Reddit at the moment of time.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion man, you really seem to know what you're talking about and I enjoyed reading that!
It's almost if the idea of karma was the birth and death of reddit. As it started out, the way to get karma was to submit interesting articles and insightful comments. Reddit grew and grew, and adviceanimals and funny quickly became its backbone. Especially as of late it feels like everyone is in it for the karma, people are afraid to post their real opinions even on subs that are supposed to be thought provoking due to the fear of downvotes. Adviceanimals wasn't much to begin with, but funny is starting to feel like forwards from Grandpa and just all reposts. Pics feels like people desperately trying to rake up karma via selling anyone around them most of the time. Karmaconspiracy truly isn't far from the truth anymore.
That being said I have hope for Hubski... I'm not quite ready to leave reddit 100%, but in the near future I will for many reasons: Most notably there is no downvote so people will be less afraid to voice real opinions. As my second post I just wanted to say I have hope for my future here :)
I agree with you there, there is definitely a mad crawl to get karma and keep it. I think even I can say I'm guilty of that, or have been in the past. When I first joined Reddit I honestly didn't care about Karma, browsed around and did whatever I felt like, mostly comments.
Then, once I got my first "good", high karma post (a rage comic nonetheless, shudder) I got hooked. I was more active and browsed for ages just to accumulate comment karma and to a lesser extent link karma. I never "whored out" per se, and never lied for karma, but I did try and capitalise on puns, memes and more rage comic crap once or twice.
Anyway, as that time elapsed I got tired of doing stuff for karma. I like to browse smaller subs and contribute to the discussion, but even there you get flooded by downvotes for sharing an opinion.
I once got downvoted just because I said I thought cloning was ethical but suggesting that some people might not give clones equal rights. Apparently the whole of Reddit (and the world) are super liberal rights givers, because the mere suggestion that some people do not want others as equals solicited many downvotes. That was on a science-sub. I can't even get discussion there.
So yeah, I hope I'll leave Reddit at somepoint. I still browse and comment now, but Hubski is a place to chill and have some discussion. Funny thing is, it's like Reddit is my drug and Hubski is my rehab. Eventually I'll quit but it's hard to go cold turkey for the time being. Well done on your second post. I haven't been here long either but I hope you like it as much as I do so far!