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comment by aidrocsid
aidrocsid  ·  3210 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Tim Hunt, Sexism and the Cult of Science

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't see any problem with people making choices in their lives and I think its sexist and controlling to deny women's agency. I also strongly disagree that men and women can be construed as cohesive parties.

I don't see much headway being made in this direction.

I have to say, though it's nice to be able to have conversations like this, intractable as our positions may become, without all the hostility I'm used to seeing surrounding this sort of thing. :D





KaliYugaz  ·  3210 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Arguably, reforming our labor laws and subsidizing childcare would increase women's agency and the choices that women can make in their lives by removing the heavy opportunity cost between career and family. And it is estimated to be a cause of a large portion of the overall gender wage gap as well.

If anything, we should both be able to agree that this is a good idea, even if our political frameworks are completely different!

    I have to say, though it's nice to be able to have conversations like this, intractable as our positions may become, without all the hostility I'm used to seeing surrounding this sort of thing.

Ikr? Hubski is amazing.

aidrocsid  ·  3210 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Personally, I don't see why breeding specifically should be subsidized above and beyond other aspirations. Loads of people are stuck in jobs that aren't perfect for them without the ability to spend their time on the things they'd rather do without sacrificing some aspect of their position, whether that be raising a family, taking a trip, creating art, whatever. The reality is that there is a legitimate opportunity cost between career and basically any other aspiration.

Personally, I think that if we can, as a society, we should try to allow people to do the things they really want to do. I'm a supporter of universal basic income. I think that if people's basic needs are taken care of they'll generally apply themselves to more worthwhile things than they would to earn a paycheck, because the weight of the fear of failure is removed.

I can see how applying this idea to women specifically would be good in terms of allowing women more flexibility in the workplace, something they show a strong preference for, but where does that leave everyone else? What about women who want to be artists, rather than mothers? Or men who want to climb Mt Everest? Conversely, what about those people who do work 60 hours a week every week for 40 years or whatever? Shouldn't they get a significant leg up over the rest of us who, quite rationally, can't be bothered with that sort of insane grind?

I'm just not sure why having children is more important than other aspirations or, for that matter, why child-rearing ought to be specific to women. At the same time I do see that more women seem to choose to spend more of their time on their children than men, and I really don't see a problem with that.

Don't we have maternity leave in most of the US at this point anyway? To what point do we further extend accommodations? How, again, are we measuring success? Are we measuring success in a way that distinguishes choice from compulsion or that muddies the two and leaves us to guess what's what?

That, to me, is really what makes all the difference. Do we know what's going on with people, or are we filtering vague information through an ideological lens to get a specific answer that we're trained to search for? We should always try to eliminate bias, I'd say.

KaliYugaz  ·  3210 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I'm just not sure why having children is more important than other aspirations or, for that matter, why child-rearing ought to be specific to women.

Honestly, it's because I'm working under the assumption that childcare is necessary labor to sustain the population and thus maintain society. But if you believe that most jobs are going to be automated away in the future, and so less people would be a better thing, and childcare is a non-essential choice, I can see where you're coming from. Indeed, a basic income would be liberating for everyone, including women.

But I'm still confused by your lack of concern about the lack of leverage that women have relative to men and the real indignities that it enables. Again, back to the geopolitical analogy: Would you advise a country to not maintain a standing army just because taxes infringe a bit on free choice? How, then, will the country defend itself from the threat of external aggression or secure its state interests against its competitors? Why is it any different when it comes to competition between classes?

One last thing, we do have some maternity leave in the US, but it's atrocious compared to what exists in almost every other country.