From my new favorite twitter stream: I enjoyed this piece StJohn I found myself being a staunch agnostic, arguing that christianity was full of hypocrisy, false claims and bizarre magical feats, which of course it is. But I had only vague knowledge of the bible from my time in catholic school. -I had done everything I could to not let the text sink in. Therefore, as an adult I decided to take a year long bible study class. We met every Wednesday night in the upstairs of a United Methodist Church in Ann Arbor MI. There were 12 of us in the class ranging from age 18 to about 55. I was the one skeptic and I will say that the rest of the group was so kind to me. They heard my responses to the passages and text and attempted to address my "concerns". I made some life long friends from that class, it was a lovely experience. One of my favorite moments is when I was speaking with Pastor Tracey about the nature of God. She mentioned that God was "truth". I said, there are many paths to the "truth", why should Christianity be the "one"? She said that the key in life was not to pick a certain path, but to pick a path. What she was trying to say was that everyone needs a compass. Whether that compass is the Silmarillion, the Quran or the Bible, the key is to pick one. -Her advice. Admittedly, this was a very liberal church :) It sounds like you are still in the Old Testament, which can be a bear to get through at times. Good luck. I will say that Jesus sort of changes everything regarding the bible. The New Testament literally meant a "new covenant" between man and God. The way I saw it, it was like erasing the chalk board and starting over. Oh God, did we really say the flood was only 20 some odd feet deep... let's just start all over. Cue Jesus please. Then Christ comes and his teachings are pretty amazing. From that entire year, what really resonated with me were the teachings of Christ. What really, really resonated with me was how off base most christians seem to be considering what it is he taught and said. I left the year long bible study course with a greater understanding of the bible. I left with a sense of great respect and awe for what Jesus taught, so much so that it pisses me off to see christians misrepresent it. While I still remain largely agnostic, I do think as far as a "path" goes, the teachings of Christ are a good way to go. Just ignore the rest of that crazy-bizarre chalk board. -including the resurrection etc. Stick to the teachings as a moral compass. So, be careful. You might just leave your reading of the bible with a bit more affection for Jesus. -He was a good fella. I've mentioned this before, but my favorite christian quote (and I'm paraphrasing) comes from St. Francis At all times preach the gospel, and when necessary use words. -If only more people were like this, regardless of their "path". Related post TJ -my kind of bible.God claims to have carried the Israelites on eagles' wings. When the hell did that happen? GOD IS NOT GANDALF.
Breaking BibleThe best I can do for Christians is suspect that most of them do not accept the Bible as literal truth, even the people who do claim to take it literally. It’s the most generous benefit of the doubt I can give to religious people of all stripes — that they are not mad enough to believe things that are obviously wrong, but simply appreciate the moral and emotional guidance their religion gives them.
-I know some Christians that would fit this description and they're FAR more interesting to have religious conversations with than those that take it "literally" but really only take it "literally" where it suits them.
That's the only time religion bothers me. I'm an agnostic person myself, and align myself more with Buddhism more than anything else, but consider that more of a belief and philosophy than a religion. Every time I have discussions of people who take the bible literally it reminds me of this scene from the West Wing. Keep in mind the President's character in this show IS religious, he's just not someone who takes the bible literally, and he destroys those that do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSXJzybEeJM But other than people who take the bible literally to use it to cut down others, I'm open minded and understanding of religious people. The only thing worse than someone who takes the bible literally is a militant Atheist who feels it's their life duty to cut down anyone who is religious or goes to church. That does nothing for anyone but create and stir vitriol, and it certainly won't bring those religious people across the line into atheism. People just need to be accepting of whatever works for everyone else. It's really that simple.than those that take it "literally" but really only take it "literally" where it suits them.
I've never watched the West Wing, but if that scene is indicative of the shows quality, I think I'll check it out. Thanks.
I've since finished it. Damn, that sucked a lot of time out of my life. -Enjoyed it though. Now we are watching "Lost". -Another time suck, but interesting.
Yeah, completely unrelated, but in my humble opinion it's the best television show that's ever been made. It's witty, political, powerful, and the cast is phenomenal. If you enjoy "smart" and political stuff, it's definitely a watch. Just watch a couple episodes and you'll be hooked. It's on Netflix streaming if you do that.
Just started Season 1 episode 2 So far, so good. Edit: just started 4th episode. It's 2am. It's good
Hah, good to know. If you stick it through the finale of season one you'll be even more hooked, and the season two finale's last five minutes are probably the greatest thing I've ever seen on television. It really is a terrific show and all of the characters are so likeable. Glad you are enjoying it so far!
Thanks for the kind words, and for sharing your own experiences. I'm really glad you've had much the same experience as me. I haven't met many really crazy religious types. Most religious people are intelligent and willing to talk about their religion . They're some of the best conversations I've had because they always show me something new about how people think. It's far better to talk to someone about their opinions than to attack or deride them. The New vs. Old Testament comparison is an interesting one. Jesus definitely had many better things to say than the Old Testament did, and I'm inclined to think that Jesus was a real (non-divine) person who had some very good ideas that were ahead of his time. I don't think he wipes the slate clean, though. He did say to keep the Ten Commandments, which include some very arbitrary and questionable things. I haven't got there yet, but I also gather that he's the one who introduced the idea of Hell, which is a very disturbing idea, especially when it's pounded into the heads of small children. That kind of thing can really screw people up.
You ought to check out the Jeffersonian Bible and the history behind it, if you've not already. You can't make this sort of stuff up.
I'm checking it out now! Deism is the one model of God that I think is defensible. It's very possible that someone designed the laws of the universe and set the thing in motion. It's not a self-contained solution - it still raises the question of who God is and what he was doing - but it's a start. The Deist "God" doesn't even have to be supernatural, which is one of the things I like about it. There's a possible, if far-fetched, idea that we're all running inside a simulation of the universe, which means that "God" is some kind of a computer programmer.