I read the article yesterday when you posted it on FB. It started a wonderful conversation with my husband and I. I will just say that I still think that fluoride should be a choice and not put into water. Why not take it in a pill form so you can regulate exactly how much you get? The article was well written until I saw words and phrases like "hippies" and "rich white people getting acupuncture". My guess is he thinks that Monsanto is a positive thing for the "poor people" as well. I am grateful to be in an area where it's still a choice what I put into my body as well as my children.
It seems to me that in the absence of struggle, people create one. Everyone needs something they're passionate about, something they are fighting for, I think for a lot of middle-class, soccer moms/dads it's turned in to vaccines, fluoride and GMO. All of which are, more often than not, poorly understood by them but has been integrated in to that part of them governed by "belief." I believe it's bad for my children Why? I don't want chemicals in my kid We all have a right to care about what our children consume but at what point do we not allow a decision rooted in belief to infringe upon the health of someone else's kid? By the way, if I'm ever in OR I'd love to get some Kobucha with you and your hubby. -Strike that, let's make it a beer. First rounds on me :-)Why not take it in a pill form
I think for a family like yours, this might work. For poor, uneducated families it will not work.The article was well written until I saw words and phrases like "hippies" and "rich white people getting acupuncture".
I think you must be referring to this portion:Who is opposing fluoridation? Call me crazy, but five’ll get you ten that in Portland it’s mostly middle to upper class white people. It’s too bad that they can’t be bothered to actually learn how to read the scientific literature, but I suppose it is a hassle to get from your cozy office job to the acupuncturist, to 24 hour fitness and then stop to pick up some organic Kombucha at New Seasons before Mad Men is on–No time to stop and think about little poor children with their teeth rotting out of their fucking faces with no dental care who were denied a simple, safe public health measure that could have saved them from it.
-I thought it was pretty much spot on. I know a number of people like this, chances are you do too.
Who is opposing fluoridation? Call me crazy, but five’ll get you ten that in Portland it’s mostly middle to upper class white people. It’s too bad that they can’t be bothered to actually learn how to read the scientific literature, but I suppose it is a hassle to get from your cozy office job to the acupuncturist, to 24 hour fitness and then stop to pick up some organic Kombucha at New Seasons before Mad Men is on–No time to stop and think about little poor children with their teeth rotting out of their fucking faces with no dental care who were denied a simple, safe public health measure that could have saved them from it. And the tone here is hateful.
You're right. I agree with mk that there is no need for such words when making a case. His point that it is easy to ignore a problem you'll never be afflicted with could have been made in a more tactful way.
I dislike drama, people that create it, follow it, thrive on it. Always have, always will. I didn't care what was in my food, in my lotions and body products, or in my environment until we decided to get pregnant. Now I am an advocate for my children. I will lead by example and show them where real, whole foods come from, how to raise and grow it, as well as give healthy options. I am a firm believer in trusting my instincts as a parent, and my instincts tell me chemicals in the body of a 7 lb. baby or 30 pound toddler whether it be in water, syringe, food, environment is not a good thing. It can't be avoided completely, but I can eliminate as much as possible by our choices. CHOICES being key. I am allowed the choice of how much fluoride goes into our bodies. We would love to meet you for a drink if you're ever in our area-we have amazing breweries and wineries.
Side story regarding your caution of lotions etc: My wife and I were just in Mexico and while it was lovely there, the mosquitos were pretty bad. Most nights we ate dinner outside and at the restaurants, they have bug spray available for the guests. My wife, is very much in line with your thinking and she refused to use the spray. She must have 20-40 mosquito bites on her legs. Me? none. I suppose we'll never know who faired better in the long run, but I'm not questioning my decision to use the spray. I think you two would get along well :)
Aside: We have been discussing doing a wine-tour of the Oregon Coast. If we end up in your neck of the woods, I'll give you a shout.I am a firm believer in trusting my instincts as a parent, and my instincts tell me chemicals in the body of a 7 lb. baby or 30 pound toddler whether it be in water, syringe, food, environment is not a good thing
Your kids are lucky to have you as their advocate, of this I have no doubt AT ALL, but we are the stuff of chemicals. That said, you are right, it comes down to a debate about "choice." Like mk mentions, there are likely alternatives that will allow for all parties to have the "choice" they desire, but it would be costly. Have you heard of people in your area suggesting these alternative options?
My biggest question is "where does all of this stop?". Sure fluoride can be taken out of the water in a bid to get the water with less chemicals in it, but there is still chlorine added to the water, which I would argue is a more harmful chemical than fluoride. While fluoride it good in small amounts chlorine isn't and I would be much happier with water that is clean, but without any chlorine in it. So where is the protest of chlorine? And then once we take all of the chemicals out of the water supply where are we going to get our water from? While you could drink water from a stream it is definitely not cleaner than the water you get out of your tap. Even filtered there are still a number of pathogens in the water. And now we are back to adding chlorine to the water, and it isn't any "cleaner" than before. So what is clean, natural water to you? Where do we draw the line between ingesting chemicals that may or may not make the water any cleaner than before? And finally my stance:
It is guaranteed that we are all going to die someday and on a day to day basis I do thousands of things that are more dangerous than ingesting a little bit of fluoride every time I drink water, so I think there is very little impact on the quality of my life and well-being by putting fluoride in the water. As a kid I we were on well water and I got fluoride tablets to compensate. I can positively say the difference between well water and city water has had no impact on my life 23 years later.
I agree that there's no need for words like 'hippies', etc., when making a case for something. One side that I haven't seen discussed enough is the expectations for public drinking water. Of course, they must add chlorine, however when it comes to optional additives like fluoride or water softeners, satisfying the desires of the majority of customers might be the most reasonable goal. If they didn't fluoridate, one option might be to provide free fluoride to needy families that wanted it, as well as PSAs to increase their fluoridating water, but that might be more complex, expensive, and less successful. (BTW, I think you need to drink fluoridated water, rather than take a pill, as the prevention of tooth decay requires contact with the teeth). At any rate, if the majority of customers desire fluoridated water, then I think it's reasonable to expect that the minority can opt out by drinking water from other sources. Perhaps this could/should be subsidized too? It's a very tricky issue, to be sure.I will just say that I still think that fluoride should be a choice and not put into water. Why not take it in a pill form so you can regulate exactly how much you get?
Really enjoyed reading this article even though I don't live in Portland. Awesome article and take on the fluoridation debates that get had around the country and world on the subject.
Yikes. I don't even know him and now I feel for him now.It was also a house divided on vaccines. :/
I think what you do is go down to your local book store and buy a coffee table book filled with picture of kids who have been deformed by the various diseases that vaccines prevent against and leave it out in the open without saying anything. In relationships, the more passive aggressive the better. Did I mention I'm not married? Hmmm.
You ought to read this, I just stumbled upon it. By the way, you never did create that coffee table book...
Well done. ecib, where did you and M end up on the issue?
Eh...if there was no agreement after much careful debate then I would just get them vaccinated and either lie to my wife or tell her after if I thought our relationship would withstand the angry fallout. Sorry, but somebody has to win the debate. That sounds horrible I know, and I'd be willing to lose any argument except those where my kid's health is on the line. Hmm. I should ask my fiance what she thinks about vaccines...When spouses don't agree on vaccines, what do you do?
Like AlderaanDuran, I too enjoyed the read even though I'm not in Portland. Humans are extremely adept at ignoring data in order to reinforce their "feelings" or beliefs. I'm also amazed by what causes people champion in the face of more dire societal needs. There are people that will spend huge amounts of energy and time fighting this. eeweatherly, you are in the Portland area, aren't you? Or perhaps you are in Eugene? Either way, I seem to recall discussing fluoridation with you on Hubski in the past. Any thoughts on this article? Is there a lot of discussion about the topic in your neck of the woods?