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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  4022 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Experience Says It All

    Also abortion has cheapened life to where it doesn't mean much anymore to a large portion of our nation.
I'm sorry that you see our nation through this lens. Thankfully, that's not been my experience and I think it literally has nothing to do with this topic and made weak what was a coherent and valid point.

I agree that the solution lies in better mental and overall healthcare. I wish you and your son well. Thanks for the comment.





hootsbox  ·  3999 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Actually, I believe that the "right to choose" has cheapened the general view of human life. I have yet to have a "pro-choicer" tell me when the right time is for one individual human being to be able to choose whether or not another individual human being has the right to have their life "terminated". A woman may be the "host" by nature, but the fetus is an entirely distinct human (not an appendage of a woman's body) with their own genetic markers, distinct DNA patterns, and their own "identity". When do I have the right to choose whether they live or not! Many people site medical reasons, but that is rubbish; most are done for "convenience" including partial birth abortions (very few are medically necessary). All this does "cheapen" the view of the sanctity of life and the individual. It has everything to do with why someone is able to take another's life without thought (mental health excluded and there are many more instances of murder for anger reasons and such). Why would I kill someone for their "Nike" tennis shoes? It is easier if I don't view there life as the pinnacle of sanctity and value. However, murder has been with us since the beginning of documented time, and the source comes from a nature (all mankind is born with it) that is basically selfish in focus (we learn to be unselfish). No legislation can stop it; only a redemptive effort and transformation or laws based in, in our case historically, Judeo-Christian rule of law developed mainly in England prior to the founding of the USA.

thenewgreen  ·  3999 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm sorry for you if you really think that people make such decisions "without thought." I would guess that it's not normally the case. I know many people that are pro-choice and I've known some people that are adamantly pro-life and there are some really great, thoughtful people on both sides of the issue. You've never asked me the question about "when the right time is," but if I were to answer I would say that there isn't a "right" time but rather a time when the fetus couldn't 1. live outside the womb and 2. wasn't sentient.

Between 10 and 20% of all known pregnancies end in miscarriage. 80% of those within the first 12 weeks. (btw, at 12 weeks the fetus is about the size of a lentil). Should these fetus' have grave stones and be buried in cemeteries? Should we name them? If they are indeed individual human beings, shouldn't they have distinct names to match their "distinct DNA?" Distinct Eulogies?

I would agree that there isn't a clearly defined line of where it's right or wrong to terminate the process, which is why it should be left to the mother, not the state.

I am not a "PRO" choice guy. I'm a "non-government-making-this-decision-guy-in-hopes-that-the-government-in-conjunction-with-the-religious-zealots-can-embrace-a-culture-of-birth-control kind of guy.

Want less abortions? How about preventing more unwanted pregnancies???? No brainer, right?

As for the Nike's, you said it: "murder has been with us since the beginning of documented time" To say it is a bi-product of legalized abortion is wrong.

Despite what you might think, the world is safer than it has ever been in the history of mankind. Less war, less atrocity, less famine than EVER. We are fortunate to live in these times. Truly.

But it's always easier to say "remember when things were better. When people had a moral compass...." -The people I know and are friends with have amazing compasses. The world is in as good a state as it's ever been in and I'm excited to see what the future brings! You should be too.

hootsbox  ·  3988 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think you overstate and misconstrue my point - I did not say "all pro-choicers - or anybody who is not "religious" are thoughtless killers. I am referring to a segment of our society that views the unborn (who are just as dependent on the mother at early stages of development as they are after birth - and fathers at that point- and for a lengthy period of time after birth). The view of the unborn as "punishment" (to coin a term used by the current President) or as a "thing" instead of a person is, in my and half the population of our country for that matter, a "cheapened" view of life in itself. I do know many "non-religious" folks who are good people and respect life - but don't paint everybody with a religious compass as a "religious zealot" (I would hope they are zealous in the good sense because hypocrisy is detestable whether religious or not) or a right wing extremist who wants to deprive women of something. That statement, by implication, is biased and shows a narrow minded view of both "the religious right" ,as you allude to, or pro-lifers in regards to birth control. Most statistic today are over-stated in terms of things like "back ally abortions", etc. Those were very few and far between in the Roe vs. Wade decision. Let me close becoming back to the gun control issue. None of thee current, proposed legislation, other than the part about mental health checks would have prevented the last four calamities - it is useless regulation on top of what we already have. Law abiding citizens, armed with many of the proposed "assault weapons" don't go around killing people.